GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[nfitz]

I have worked at a power plant that I could be at home and start up or shut down the plant.

Doh!

 

[micheal_can]

Doh!
View attachment 100261

Actually, yes, that is almost how it is. (I don't wear a mu-mu.)

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

I took the commute this morning from Guelph to Toronto for the first time in many months. Many changes since the days I used to live I Guelph and do the trip daily.

Gotta say I was still left wanting. There were some slow spots after Acton. Going over the creek east of Silver on a 3 track corridor was sweet, but we still crawled through there, is it still a work zone? Then we still don't have a mainline platform at Georgetown! What ever happened to that? Then several slow travel speeds from Mt Pleasant to Bramalea. After clearing the grade separation work zone east of Bramalea, we went express and kept speed most of the way until Parkdale. Then another wait. On top of it all, our dwell times at the stations we stopped at were really long; we sat at Georgetown for 5 whole minutes (yet we had a limited to clear signal pulling up to the platform; no CN conflict), Mt Pleasant for 3, Brampton and Bramalea for 2-3 each.

From my hazy memory, I don't feel like significant gains in travel time have been achieved on an express train vs. over 3 years ago before I moved. I feel like 1h 27m is not a huge improvement, especially considering the biggest time suckers of that day (most works related to GTS and the Silver reconfiguration) are now done.

 

[steveintoronto]

I took the commute this morning from Guelph to Toronto for the first time in many months. Many changes since the days I used to live I Guelph and do the trip daily. Gotta say I was still left wanting.

Your post is so serendipitous, I just thinking of that, it's been just over a year now since my taking the later train every weekday morning from Guelph, and even detraining at Bloor, it was about one hour and forty five mins. I really don't miss it. It forced my moving back to Toronto, actually a good thing in many respects. I wondered on the claims for "under two hours from K/W", and it seems it's still a stretch. I think it always will be until/if the 407 Bypass becomes real.

 

[crs1026]

From my hazy memory, I don't feel like significant gains in travel time have been achieved on an express train vs. over 3 years ago before I moved. I feel like 1h 27m is not a huge improvement, especially considering the biggest time suckers of that day (most works related to GTS and the Silver reconfiguration) are now done.

There are several issues here, which ML really needs to answer for.

The first is the utter lack of accountability and transparency about what the project plan for each line is, what ought to be happening, what it will cost, when it will be done. The sappy PR fog that we see on the ML website and in Board reports is absolutely unacceptable as a public explanation of how each corridor is being upgraded and when we can expect things to get better. ML's whole attitude is 'when we get to it'..... the reality that Guelph-Toronto ride is painfully slow seems to not translate into a sense of urgency at ML.

The second is that these project plans are granular and attack the corridors piecemeal. There seems to be no overall 'reality check' to test how improvements add up to better service. So we see a big investment in location X that ought to improve service, but 500 meters down the line there is a bottleneck or slow order that won't be tackled until 2021..... so no overall gain. ( Parkdale is a good example of a bottleneck that should never have been.... GTS actually took away track capacity from GO compared to pre 2015) Staggered execution may be an unavoidable reality, but GO needs to be more forthcoming on what the critical path and long lead time items on each corridor are.... one wonders if they worry about these, or just pick low hanging things to look busy with.

The third is that schedules are incredibly loose and there is no incentive to tighten them. The Service Guarantee may improve attention to operations but at the cost of padded schedules.

FWIW I took a trip to Unionville last week, not a route I normally use - and wondered what is taking so long with the doubletracking. And then I realised that several main streets have grade separation projects earmarked. It will be expensive to first double track the crossings, and then tear them all up again to shoofly around the separation projects. Not much potential for all-day service while those projects are under way. It would make good sense to not attempt all-day service until the grade separations are complete.....except.....we need 2WAD right away. And ML is promising hourly service there. Again, what really is the plan?

- Paul

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

They might have consider scaling down UPX. Especially when Eglinton West is built.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

They might have consider scaling down UPX. Especially when Eglinton West is built.

There are several issues here, which ML really needs to answer for.

The first is the utter lack of accountability and transparency about what the project plan for each line is, what ought to be happening, what it will cost, when it will be done. The sappy PR fog that we see on the ML website and in Board reports is absolutely unacceptable as a public explanation of how each corridor is being upgraded and when we can expect things to get better. ML's whole attitude is 'when we get to it'..... the reality that Guelph-Toronto ride is painfully slow seems to not translate into a sense of urgency at ML.

The second is that these project plans are granular and attack the corridors piecemeal. There seems to be no overall 'reality check' to test how improvements add up to better service. So we see a big investment in location X that ought to improve service, but 500 meters down the line there is a bottleneck or slow order that won't be tackled until 2021..... so no overall gain. ( Parkdale is a good example of a bottleneck that should never have been.... GTS actually took away track capacity from GO compared to pre 2015) Staggered execution may be an unavoidable reality, but GO needs to be more forthcoming on what the critical path and long lead time items on each corridor are.... one wonders if they worry about these, or just pick low hanging things to look busy with.

The third is that schedules are incredibly loose and there is no incentive to tighten them. The Service Guarantee may improve attention to operations but at the cost of padded schedules.

FWIW I took a trip to Unionville last week, not a route I normally use - and wondered what is taking so long with the doubletracking. And then I realised that several main streets have grade separation projects earmarked. It will be expensive to first double track the crossings, and then tear them all up again to shoofly around the separation projects. Not much potential for all-day service while those projects are under way. It would make good sense to not attempt all-day service until the grade separations are complete.....except.....we need 2WAD right away. And ML is promising hourly service there. Again, what really is the plan?

- Paul

Imo, it's just so badly planned. Why was all the emphasis placed on UPX and not expanding service to Brampton in 2014? That would pay more in the long run. Mt Pleasant, Allandale and Mt Joy should have had all say service by now. But there is not enough tracks. They have to rebuilt the Dufferin bridge as well for Barrie all day service. Just such a mess.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

There are several issues here, which ML really needs to answer for.

The first is the utter lack of accountability and transparency about what the project plan for each line is, what ought to be happening, what it will cost, when it will be done. The sappy PR fog that we see on the ML website and in Board reports is absolutely unacceptable as a public explanation of how each corridor is being upgraded and when we can expect things to get better. ML's whole attitude is 'when we get to it'..... the reality that Guelph-Toronto ride is painfully slow seems to not translate into a sense of urgency at ML.

The second is that these project plans are granular and attack the corridors piecemeal. There seems to be no overall 'reality check' to test how improvements add up to better service. So we see a big investment in location X that ought to improve service, but 500 meters down the line there is a bottleneck or slow order that won't be tackled until 2021..... so no overall gain. ( Parkdale is a good example of a bottleneck that should never have been.... GTS actually took away track capacity from GO compared to pre 2015) Staggered execution may be an unavoidable reality, but GO needs to be more forthcoming on what the critical path and long lead time items on each corridor are.... one wonders if they worry about these, or just pick low hanging things to look busy with.

The third is that schedules are incredibly loose and there is no incentive to tighten them. The Service Guarantee may improve attention to operations but at the cost of padded schedules.

FWIW I took a trip to Unionville last week, not a route I normally use - and wondered what is taking so long with the doubletracking. And then I realised that several main streets have grade separation projects earmarked. It will be expensive to first double track the crossings, and then tear them all up again to shoofly around the separation projects. Not much potential for all-day service while those projects are under way. It would make good sense to not attempt all-day service until the grade separations are complete.....except.....we need 2WAD right away. And ML is promising hourly service there. Again, what really is the plan?

- Paul

Agreed on all your points. Thing is, to your second point, I was willing to brush slow orders due to ongoing construction aside, and just gripe about other conflicts and dwell times alone!

I don't understand the hold-up at Parkdale, quite honestly. The corridor is supposed to be 8 tracks there; 2 each for Milton, Kitchener, UPX and Barrie, all running two-way all-day. I know the 2 southwest tracks have not been laid yet in the Strachan Underpass and would merge east of it anyway, but point is Milton and Barrie lines only run peak direction, peak period, and Kitchener only runs the odd deadhead (I think) in the counterpeak direction, and there's still a hold-up?

 

[TOareaFan]

Agreed on all your points. Thing is, to your second point, I was willing to brush slow orders due to ongoing construction aside, and just gripe about other conflicts and dwell times alone!

I don't understand the hold-up at Parkdale, quite honestly. The corridor is supposed to be 8 tracks there; 2 each for Milton, Kitchener, UPX and Barrie, all running two-way all-day. I know the 2 southwest tracks have not been laid yet in the Strachan Underpass and would merge east of it anyway, but point is Milton and Barrie lines only run peak direction, peak period, and Kitchener only runs the odd deadhead (I think) in the counterpeak direction, and there's still a hold-up?

mid day (ie between the morning and evening peak periods) the trains on KW line are not dead head....they are scheduled trains with stops along the way.

Using Brampton - Union...this gives the GO train trips in the corridor.

 

[crs1026]

Before GTS, there were two tracks between Parkdale and the limits of the USRC at Strachan, with crossovers so that trains could use either track. At rush hour, this configuration allowed Kitchener/Georgetown trains to use one track while Barrrie trains used the other track.
During GTS, the crossover at Parkdale was removed, and now Kitchener and Barrie trains travelling in the peak direction must share one track - a 'single file' proposition. In theory, if everything is exactly on schedule, it all fits - except that in reality, things don't work that smoothly and two trains often show up at the same time. One waits until the other has passed before proceeding.
GTS enlarged this corridor from two tracks to three, but removing this one crossover combined with the allocation of track and platforms at Bloor has given all the investment to UPE while actually constraining GO's use if the corridor.

- Paul

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Before GTS, there were two tracks between Parkdale and the limits of the USRC at Strachan, with crossovers so that trains could use either track. At rush hour, this configuration allowed Kitchener/Georgetown trains to use one track while Barrrie trains used the other track.
During GTS, the crossover at Parkdale was removed, and now Kitchener and Barrie trains travelling in the peak direction must share one track - a 'single file' proposition. In theory, if everything is exactly on schedule, it all fits - except that in reality, things don't work that smoothly and two trains often show up at the same time. One waits until the other has passed before proceeding.
GTS enlarged this corridor from two tracks to three, but removing this one crossover combined with the allocation of track and platforms at Bloor has given all the investment to UPE while actually constraining GO's use if the corridor.

- Paul

smh

mid day (ie between the morning and evening peak periods) the trains on KW line are not dead head....they are scheduled trains with stops along the way.

Using Brampton - Union...this gives the GO train trips in the corridor.

View attachment 100434

Midday sure. But at least one of the trips in the morning is a deadhead, we passed it this morning. Looking at Guelph's quicktable gives you a better idea, it's one of the Mt Pleasant transfers (I believe the it was the 8:50 arrival at Union EB I saw; was a 6-coach consist with an F59).

 

[TOareaFan]

smh



Midday sure. But at least one of the trips in the morning is a deadhead, we passed it this morning. Looking at Guelph's quicktable gives you a better idea, it's one of the Mt Pleasant transfers (I believe the it was the 8:50 arrival at Union EB I saw; was a 6-coach consist with an F59).

Sure, I may have misunderstood your post but the words "Kitchener only runs the odd deadhead (I think) in the counterpeak direction, and there's still a hold-up?" led me to think that deadheads were all that ran on the line.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Before GTS, there were two tracks between Parkdale and the limits of the USRC at Strachan, with crossovers so that trains could use either track. At rush hour, this configuration allowed Kitchener/Georgetown trains to use one track while Barrrie trains used the other track.
During GTS, the crossover at Parkdale was removed, and now Kitchener and Barrie trains travelling in the peak direction must share one track - a 'single file' proposition. In theory, if everything is exactly on schedule, it all fits - except that in reality, things don't work that smoothly and two trains often show up at the same time. One waits until the other has passed before proceeding.
GTS enlarged this corridor from two tracks to three, but removing this one crossover combined with the allocation of track and platforms at Bloor has given all the investment to UPE while actually constraining GO's use if the corridor.

- Paul

Why would you remove track capacity. I wonder what they are thinking at metrolinx sometimes?

 

[smallspy]

Before GTS, there were two tracks between Parkdale and the limits of the USRC at Strachan, with crossovers so that trains could use either track. At rush hour, this configuration allowed Kitchener/Georgetown trains to use one track while Barrrie trains used the other track.
During GTS, the crossover at Parkdale was removed, and now Kitchener and Barrie trains travelling in the peak direction must share one track - a 'single file' proposition. In theory, if everything is exactly on schedule, it all fits - except that in reality, things don't work that smoothly and two trains often show up at the same time. One waits until the other has passed before proceeding.
GTS enlarged this corridor from two tracks to three, but removing this one crossover combined with the allocation of track and platforms at Bloor has given all the investment to UPE while actually constraining GO's use if the corridor.

- Paul

Actually....

Before all of the construction, you are correct - there were two tracks north from the USRC (all the way to north of West Toronto, technically), with a single crossover at Parkdale.

During the bulk of the construction, they removed the second track north of Parkdale, but maintained it south of there. There used to be a train in the morning rush hours that would deadhead around 8am north to Bramalea - this train would sit there waiting for a gap in the traffic to scoot on north.

Towards the end of the construction as they shifted tracks around, they did remove the crossover as they brought the new tracks online one-by-one. This has limited Barrie trains to track 1 of the Weston Sub.

However...

Any constraints to GO service are entirely by the hand of GO themselves, and no one else. There is no reason why they can't operate Kitchener trains on the other two tracks, and in fact have on a number of occasions where the need has arisen.

Chalk it up to lazy RTCs, or lazy bureaucrats, or whatever. But in terms of the actual track and signalling arrangement, there's no reason why they couldn't run a better service to Brampton and points west than they do today.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[cbrown2009]

The corridor from Parkdale to USRC is supposed to accommodate 8 tracks. Even at the Dufferin Tunnel which was built short, there was still room for 6 tracks. But, for some reason, only four live tracks were laid ( 1-Milton, 2-UPX, 1-Barrie/Kitchener during normal operations). Why at least a fifth track was not laid live to separate Barrie and Kitchener operations is beyond me, especially given that both services are supposed to be expanding to 2 way all day on weekends imminently and 7 days by fall. Also why there isn't more sharing of tracks between UPX and Kitchener trains I don't understand. Even the 2 afternoon express runs Malton-Union now move to track 1 east of Malton. They used to use track 2 running in the15 minute window between two eastbound UPX trains.
Speaking of which, I noticed that in the last ML meeting summary there was no mention of the April (?) rail expansion to evenings & weekends on the Kitchener line. Is that still the plan/timeline or has ML delayed?