GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Don't forget Hurontario LRT connects to THREE different GO lines and that ALL THREE will have 15-minute peak service in the announced 10 year plan! That, combined, will provide measurable relief for Mississauga already!

In fact, there can be allday 15-min RER electric service at both Brampton* and Port Credit. Hurontario LRT will connect to both, not just Milton line. Although 15-min will go to Bramalea initially, the short electricification hop from Bramalea to Brampton would be only a very minor megaproject (added new trackage, relocating historic Brampton station building 10-15 meters northwards) compared to a subway. Then throw in a Woodbine Racetrack RER station, and this helps Mississauga go to Pearson, too, not just Union.

If Mississauga still wants a subway, consider the GO RER Eglinton spur (a.k.a. SmartTrack) if it gets built. If it gets built to Airport Corporate, then a Phase 2 extension (Airport Corporate to Square One) would be shorter and cheaper incremental cost than a TTC Kipling extension. Then we'd have underground GO RER Eglinton (or "SmartTrack") ala a subway to Mississauga. Then Hurontario will connect to FOUR GO lines, including that brand new GO RER corridor under Square One (the "SmartTrack extension" that's shorter than a TTC Kipling extension).

Exactly. It's not all day on the Milton line, but it's good start.

Woah there. I have always said that a subway is a bad choice for a riders' perspective. But I completely disagree with your assertion that "a sherway - square one subway would not cost more then a full double track treatment of the Milton line". With the necessary tunnelling and underground stations, I would suggest that a subway extension would still be 3-4 times more expensive than a full double track treatment of the Milton line.

IDK... Just going to Sherway or Cloverdale would be less then 1 billion. I think the cost comes from tunneling along Dundas West to MCC. I can't see it being more then eastern extension to SCC. Then again maybe you are right because laying two tracks would not cost as much, I just think CPR will play hard ball.

 

[salsa]

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-c...ransit-projects-in-biggest-cities-sources-say

this is good news

Only now they announce this, in an election year? Whatever. We need a new government.

 

[nfitz]

Only now they announce this, in an election year? Whatever. We need a new government.

How will that work? The Liberals have always given far less for transit construction than the Tories have in the last 9 years.

 

[BurlOak]

Only now they announce this, in an election year? Whatever. We need a new government.

I think this government has given $660M for the "Scarborough" subway, $300M for the Sheppard line, and some for UPE as well. I would guess that this government has given more for transit than any previous federal government - maybe by a factor of 10.

 

[nfitz]

I think this government has given $660M for the "Scarborough" subway, $300M for the Sheppard line, and some for UPE as well. I would guess that this government has given more for transit than any previous federal government - maybe by a factor of 10.

Your forgot the $700M for the Spadina subway extension. Some of the UPE funding (can't remember the number ... ballpark of $70 million or so, however came from the Chretien government. Off hand, it's the only Liberal funding I can think of municipal transit expansion in Ontario ... though in reality both VIA and GO were also benefactors.

 

[TOareaFan]

I think this government has given $660M for the "Scarborough" subway, $300M for the Sheppard line, and some for UPE as well. I would guess that this government has given more for transit than any previous federal government - maybe by a factor of 10.

I would guess the list is longer than that too....paid 1/3 of Brampton Transit's Zum (IIRC)...if you expand beyond the 416 there may be other transit projects that received funding from the feds.

 

[Dan416]

I really don't understand the assertion that RER will make the Hurontario LRT more useful. If you think people who live on the Hurontario corridor are going out of their way to travel all the way to Port Credit or Brampton GO instead of Cooksville, Dixie, Erindale or Streetsville GO, you have no sense of reality.

Milton might not be getting RER anytime soon, but at least there are buses every half hour most times of the day. No reason they couldn't do them every 15 minutes like RER.

 

[mdrejhon]

I really don't understand the assertion that RER will make the Hurontario LRT more useful. If you think people who live on the Hurontario corridor are going out of their way to travel all the way to Port Credit or Brampton GO instead of Cooksville, Dixie, Erindale or Streetsville GO, you have no sense of reality.

Milton might not be getting RER anytime soon, but at least there are buses every half hour most times of the day. No reason they couldn't do them every 15 minutes like RER.

They aren't mutually exclusive.

I should point out that commuter-frequency service (60mins, 30mins) and rapid-transit-frequency service (15-min and better) are totally different animals, it does (to an extent, maybe subject to dispute) make Hurontario becoming more useful. People living midway between Cooksville and Port Credit, would more likely take the LRT to Port Credit instead, and people living closer to Brampton GO would take the LRT north instead of Square One, as an example, if there was 15-minute frequency service that brought you downtown.

Electric trains can speed up the GO lines 10-25% faster, Metrolinx says so in last year's RER PDF. Combined with 15-min frequency (or better), it's a faster trip to various destinations (such as Union) in GTA than taking a bus from Square One during peak hour traffic, given the Hurontario being dedicated lane and traffic-signal priority.

A 20 minute Hurontario LRT ride from Mississauga Square One to Port Credit, then a short wait, followed by a short 10-15 minute Lakeshore West GO RER "surface subway" ride to downtown Toronto. That would be a very tempting way of getting to downtown, that would be faster than a Kipling TTC subway extension.

 

[BurlOak]

Your forgot the $700M for the Spadina subway extension. Some of the UPE funding (can't remember the number ... ballpark of $70 million or so, however came from the Chretien government. Off hand, it's the only Liberal funding I can think of municipal transit expansion in Ontario ... though in reality both VIA and GO were also benefactors.

Your right, I did forget about SSE.

From City of Toronto Briefing Book;

In March 2007, the federal government pledged $697 million towards eligible Project costs providing an up-front payment of $75 million, attributed under
the Public Transit Capital Trust, which was deposited into the Move Ontario Trust.

Seing as Harper was elected in Jan. 2006, it looks like the Harper government gets credit for that as well. Maybe I should have said "factor of 20".

 

[ShonTron]

I would guess the list is longer than that too....paid 1/3 of Brampton Transit's Zum (IIRC)...if you expand beyond the 416 there may be other transit projects that received funding from the feds.

Yes - the feds paid 1/3 for Zum (as well as VIVA). The federal funding has actually tied the planners' hands somewhat, as they have to stick with the long-term plans that were funded back around 2006-07 for the Zum implementation, or else jeopardize that funding - one reason why Steeles West Zum service is starting this fall, despite mediocre demand along that corridor.

 

[Jonny5]

Yes - the feds paid 1/3 for Zum (as well as VIVA). The federal funding has actually tied the planners' hands somewhat, as they have to stick with the long-term plans that were funded back around 2006-07 for the Zum implementation, or else jeopardize that funding - one reason why Steeles West Zum service is starting this fall, despite mediocre demand along that corridor.

A great lesson to people who blindly think the feds must be involved in the funding of transit operations, using only the exact same tax dollars the province could raise on it's own. Do you want Ottawa going line item through the TTC budget and deciding how much service should be on the 501? Do you want them to decide to be able to cripple the TTC by pulling funding because they decided to allow one of those atheism ads? Do you want politicians from Red Deer to decide the route of a DRL? Should the delivery of new streetcars be delayed 7 years because the feds don't have the cash to pay for them? Federal funding of local transit seems to me to be a potential disaster; supported by cowardly MPPs too chicken-shit to raise taxes on their own, and desperate to pass their own problems to someone another government. And as if any of them, from any party, believe the federal governments "fair share" would mean they maintain their own funding levels instead of dropping them by the same amount the feds put in, meaning a net increase of zero.

This line of thought appears to have little more to it than:

1. Federal government funding.
2. ??????
3. Public transit utopia!

 

[k10ery]

Your right, I did forget about SSE.

From City of Toronto Briefing Book;

Seing as Harper was elected in Jan. 2006, it looks like the Harper government gets credit for that as well. Maybe I should have said "factor of 20".

You're forgetting about Paul Martin's federal gas tax fund the which has paid toronto over $1 billion for transit since 2005. Meanwhile Harper likes to fund specific projects with giant novelty cheques so he gets the most political benefit from it, but he has quietly changed the Equalization rules to rob Ontario of over $2 billion it was entitled to since 2009. Make no mistake, Harper is no friend to government or transit in Ontario.

 

[TOareaFan]

A great lesson to people who blindly think the feds must be involved in the funding of transit operations, using only the exact same tax dollars the province could raise on it's own. Do you want Ottawa going line item through the TTC budget and deciding how much service should be on the 501? Do you want them to decide to be able to cripple the TTC by pulling funding because they decided to allow one of those atheism ads? Do you want politicians from Red Deer to decide the route of a DRL? Should the delivery of new streetcars be delayed 7 years because the feds don't have the cash to pay for them? Federal funding of local transit seems to me to be a potential disaster; supported by cowardly MPPs too chicken-shit to raise taxes on their own, and desperate to pass their own problems to someone another government. And as if any of them, from any party, believe the federal governments "fair share" would mean they maintain their own funding levels instead of dropping them by the same amount the feds put in, meaning a net increase of zero.

This line of thought appears to have little more to it than:

1. Federal government funding.
2. ??????
3. Public transit utopia!

that is not what is happening at all....the only strings/conditions were that the plans that were submitted have to be built. In fact it is the opposite of what you are suggesting....the feds are saying "we don't have the time/expertise to review transit projects on going and line by line....so the caveat, that I guess is subject to some sort of audit/certification, is that you will not deviate from the plans you submitted to get approval for the funds in the first place."

 

[BurlOak]

You're forgetting about Paul Martin's federal gas tax fund the which has paid toronto over $1 billion for transit since 2005.

Yes, I forgot that too. Assuming it was paid to Toronto on a linear scale, that means the money came from Martin for one year (2005), and from Harper for 9 years (2006 to 2014).

 

[k10ery]

Yes, I forgot that too. Assuming it was paid to Toronto on a linear scale, that means the money came from Martin for one year (2005), and from Harper for 9 years (2006 to 2014).

Ah, come on! Martin invented the earmarked gas tax transfer - you want to give Harper all the credit just because he never killed it?

You're forgetting that Harper nearly DID kill it. In fact, he didn't have any interest in transfers for infrastructure, until the Libs and NDP nearly brought down his government over the fall 2008 budget. It was only in 2009 he realized that he could give Ignatieff what he demanded, and get all the political credit to boot.

Yes, come to think of it, you should credit all of that money to Prime Minister Michael Ignatieff