GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[Woodbridge_Heights]

But what's the marginal cost of serving these 75 people vs the marginal revenue they generate?

There are fuel, track and train maintenance, salaries, etc costs that are going to increase due to this increased service. Does the $15 per trip (if only 75 people will use the service) cover the cost of bringing the service to the area?

 

[royalrivers]

The numbers are in...

Here is some numbers from GUELPH - http://www.guelphtribune.ca/community/guelph-gets-go-ing/

I was digging around trying to find the estimates for projected ridership for GO from Guelph AND Kitchener - all I could find was an article stating they anticipated about 50 people per train from both cities (http://www.guelphtribune.ca/news/go-trains-arrive-in-guelph-dec-19/ - "GO is projecting 200 passenger trips a day initially for Guelph – 100 in each direction. It is projecting a similar passenger numbers for Kitchener, McNeil said."

 

[dunkalunk]

But what's the marginal cost of serving these 75 people vs the marginal revenue they generate?

There are fuel, track and train maintenance, salaries, etc costs that are going to increase due to this increased service. Does the $15 per trip (if only 75 people will use the service) cover the cost of bringing the service to the area?

Keep in mind that trains parked in Kitchener are trains that are not parked in Georgetown, allowing GO to add capacity to the line.

In addition, this is also a service which began operating in the dead of winter poorly served by existing local transit. I think you will see ridership continue to grow come next fall. There is no doubt in my mind that the service will be well-used once some track upgrades occur, and the new train station and light rail line are finished in 2017.

 

[TOareaFan]

Keep in mind that trains parked in Kitchener are trains that are not parked in Georgetown, allowing GO to add capacity to the line.

This is exactly the point I was trying to make. In addition to all the track construction going on at the south end of this line, one of the factors limiting how many trains could be offered daily (to the entire line) was that Georgetown only had room for 4 trains....so adding Kitchener to the line gave additional storage room for 2 trains....one of the results was the immediate addition of a new morning train in. (not sure what it is called but in Brampton it is the 8:19).

The first time I rode that (mid way thru the first week of service) there were very few people on it. I rode it most recently two weeks ago and can tell you it has rapidly gained popularity.

So if we are going to judge the marginal revenue of the service to the 75 K-W folks against the cost of serving them...factor in the additional service (and revenue) that extending to K-W brought the line.

 

[canarob]

But what's the marginal cost of serving these 75 people vs the marginal revenue they generate?

There are fuel, track and train maintenance, salaries, etc costs that are going to increase due to this increased service. Does the $15 per trip (if only 75 people will use the service) cover the cost of bringing the service to the area?

I can't imagine it would even come close.

75 people is one bus on the Stouffville line

 

[ShonTron]

Word is that GO will stop selling 2 and 10 ride tickets on June 1, and stop accepting them July 31.

This will result in the complete phase out of the old ticket cancelling machines on buses and in stations, and a further push for Presto, which at least already automatically gives the 10-ride price.

 

[Mongo]

Wow, that sucks. I have heard nothing but horror stories about the Presto cards, from people who have used them. How common those horror stories are as a percentage of the cards being used, I do not know.

 

[nfitz]

Wow, that sucks. I have heard nothing but horror stories about the Presto cards, from people who have used them.

And I've told a few of those horror stories. Yet I'll still use Presto and prefer it to the 10-ride tickets. More than once I had to board a GO Train and couldn't get the 10-ride ticket to validate. Can't wait until it's operational on TTC so I don't have to use those tokens

The withdrawal of the 2-ride and 10-ride tickets are documented on Metrolinx's website: http://metrolinx.com/en/docs/pdf/pr... Ticket Cancelling on the GO System FINAL.pdf

How common those horror stories are as a percentage of the cards being used, I do not know.

Metrolinx reports an 82% satisfaction rate with the card. So as a percentage of cards used? <=18%.

 

[TOareaFan]

And I've told a few of those horror stories. Yet I'll still use Presto and prefer it to the 10-ride tickets. More than once I had to board a GO Train and couldn't get the 10-ride ticket to validate. Can't wait until it's operational on TTC so I don't have to use those tokens

Exactly my experience....bit of a rough start getting it up and running but smooth sailing since and a very convenient way to pay for transit.....I am surprised how long it has been since TTC agreed to install and they still have not increased the number of subway stations (at least) where you can use it.......without any inside knowledge, I assume this is some TTC issue...afterall this is a transit agency that in the year 2012 still does not have a way for potential riders to go into a station, insert their bank card in a machine and have it spit out some sort of fare medium (tokens, tickets) other than weekly or monthly passes (and that only came very recently).

 

[nfitz]

I am surprised how long it has been since TTC agreed to install and they still have not increased the number of subway stations (at least) where you can use it

??? Agreement isn't in place yet. TTC hasn't installed in ANY subway stations yet; it's only Metrolinx that have installed test units in a few subway stations.

.......without any inside knowledge, I assume this is some TTC issue...afterall this is a transit agency that in the year 2012 still does not have a way for potential riders to go into a station, insert their bank card in a machine and have it spit out some sort of fare medium (tokens, tickets) other than weekly or monthly passes (and that only came very recently).

Oh, there's certainly issues. But I bet from the moment they have agreement in place, TTC will do their 60+ stations faster than GO did their 60+ stations.

 

[royalrivers]

From GOKW.org

Go Transit has answered questions regarding average daily ridership, between December 19 2011 and January 27 2012 the average daily ridership was 150 persons. Divided as follows:

* 85 passengers per day from Kitchener (With about 100 parking spaces provided by the City of Kitchener)

* 65 passengers per day from Guelph (No parking provided by GO, riders have to use City of Guelph parking options)

According to The Record, these numbers were in line with GO’s estimates for initial ridership, and GO expects ridership to continue to grow.

For comparison, The Barrie expansion in 2007 within 2 months saw ridership numbers of 400+ people, and provided free parking. GO has since re-opened a second station in Barrie (Allandale) and added parking.

 

[jwill]

I wonder if the 150 people are former VIA riders that switched to GO, or former drivers. Anyone have any info about that?

 

[dunkalunk]

No info, but from heresay and from a few people I know, a few of the riders on the GO are direct converts from Greyhound or pre-existing GO customers.

 

[Hipster Duck]

Well, Greyhound is certainly doing GO/Via a favour by bungling its Kitchener bus operations. When I went to UW, buses departed from the Kitchener bus terminal and went non-stop to downtown Toronto. Nowadays they make that silly stop at Sportsworld where passengers are expected to disembark and buy tickets from an inflatable dome that's shaped like a bus.

Greyhound is also shooting itself in the foot with Peterborough services. Again, non-stop Toronto to Peterborough services have largely been replaced by buses that make stops in Ajax and Oshawa, adding 30 minutes to the scheduled time from before. I'm not sure what the marginal benefits are of doing this.

 

[Jonny5]

Well, Greyhound is certainly doing GO/Via a favour by bungling its Kitchener bus operations. When I went to UW, buses departed from the Kitchener bus terminal and went non-stop to downtown Toronto. Nowadays they make that silly stop at Sportsworld where passengers are expected to disembark and buy tickets from an inflatable dome that's shaped like a bus.

Could you elaborate on that? I can't figure out what is actually happening from your description. Why do people have to get off the bus and buy tickets? Why is there an inflatable bus dome?