GO Transit Electrification | Metrolinx

[crs1026]

The UPX is a great pace to see whether these trains are worth the investment and it would be years before they order and get them and by then Toronto can see the issues with the trains by the German experience which will already be up and running. Alstom would jump at the chance of lending Toronto a train for 6 months for increased frequency on the UPX and that sure as hell beats the alternative of having to buy another diesel train. Toronto is the ONLY city on the entire planet that runs diesel trains to it's airport.

Get a trial going and see how they perform. If they turn out to be duds or just not what Toronto or other Ontario needs then no harm done. They could however be exactly what's need in other cities or off-peak. Choice is always a good thing.

This exactly how hydrogen should be attempted.

The fly in the oinment appears to be - this low-risk trial is potentially being used as a silver-bullet excuse to defer the entire procurement and installation of wires across the system. That would impose a disastrous delay on RER (and ST, if anyone cares).

As you point out, every other city has just bit the bullet and strung wires. Ontario and ML should have no illusion that hydrogen will arrive in time to enable a wire free network. In the extremely optimistic case - If hydrogen takes off, and arrives soon, we could be the last jurisdiction to ever install catenary, and we could end up wondering why we did that. Personally, five years from now I would much rather be complaining about all the money we wasted on wires than be complaining about not having any progress on RER. In this case, Time wasted is money wasted.

- Paul

 

[cplchanb]

This exactly how hydrogen should be attempted.

The fly in the oinment appears to be - this low-risk trial is potentially being used as a silver-bullet excuse to defer the entire procurement and installation of wires across the system. That would impose a disastrous delay on RER (and ST, if anyone cares).

As you point out, every other city has just bit the bullet and strung wires. Ontario and ML should have no illusion that hydrogen will arrive in time to enable a wire free network. In the extremely optimistic case - If hydrogen takes off, and arrives soon, we could be the last jurisdiction to ever install catenary, and we could end up wondering why we did that. Personally, five years from now I would much rather be complaining about all the money we wasted on wires than be complaining about not having any progress on RER. In this case, Time wasted is money wasted.

- Paul

exactly as i mentioned earlier. they dont have the luxury of pet projects at this point. they need heavy duty blinders to stay focused on what is really important which is to establish the network

 

[mdrejhon]

I don't think UPX would be become hydrogen train because:

The Kitchener/Barrie/Stoufville routing is strategically important to electrify due to planned tighter stop spacing warranting maximum possible acceleration (EMUs). In addition, electrification is needed to protect for Ontario's eventual migration towards high speed rail (even if GO RER electrification should come first!) -- they just announced an advisory group today. So even if they do hydrogen somewhere, there is assuredly going to be some electrification happening somewhere else -- and the bettor money would be electrification happening along the Bramalea-Unionville section since that will be the section of greatest EMU benefit (very tight stop spacing).

More likely, if hydrail happens in Ontario, it would be connector routes (e.g. Hamilton-Niagara back-and-fourth train shuttle, Bowmanville, etc).

 

[kEiThZ]

There won't be any more movement on electrification till the next election. The Liberals are allergic to anything with "electric" in it. And if the Tories get in, the plan is dead. Hydrail may actually be what happens with the Tories.

 

[Allandale25]

There won't be any more movement on electrification till the next election. The Liberals are allergic to anything with "electric" in it. And if the Tories get in, the plan is dead. Hydrail may actually be what happens with the Tories.

There's going to be movement on the technical side. The TPAP wraps up in December from what I recall. Then there's the usual Notice period where people can comment to the Minister, and then the Minister signs off. The real question will be how much happens on the RFQ/RFP side before the writ drops in May 2018.

 

[jje1000]

If the Liberals fail to get the electrification RFPs underway before the election, there's no way I'll vote for them, since it'll be just another thing they've messed up by needlessly politicizing and catering to vested interests like marijuana, beer, healthcare, electricity, Metrolinx, etc.

It's so sad that there's so little faith in the Liberals to deliver on their promises these days.

 

[raptor]

There's going to be movement on the technical side. The TPAP wraps up in December from what I recall. Then there's the usual Notice period where people can comment to the Minister, and then the Minister signs off. The real question will be how much happens on the RFQ/RFP side before the writ drops in May 2018.

Are you referring to the Electrification TPAP? If so, Notice of Completion was issued on October 11. The Notice period ends Nov 9.

 

[crs1026]

There's going to be movement on the technical side. The TPAP wraps up in December from what I recall. Then there's the usual Notice period where people can comment to the Minister, and then the Minister signs off. The real question will be how much happens on the RFQ/RFP side before the writ drops in May 2018.

The TPAP Notice of Completion was issued October 11th. That leaves just about enough time for the Minister to approve it, but no time to begin procurement. Of course, the UPE portion of the electrification was a separate TPAP that was completed in 2014.... and we know how much action there has been on that front.

- Paul

 

[Allandale25]

Are you referring to the Electrification TPAP? If so, Notice of Completion was issued on October 11. The Notice period ends Nov 9.

Yes, that's what I was referring to. Couldn't remember the exact dates. Just wanted to mention it in light of the comment about nothing moving on the electrification front.

 

[Allandale25]

The hydrogen slide deck for tomorrow's special Metrolinx Board meeting has been posted on the Metrolinx website here.

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

Metrolinx will pay each manufacturer a stipend, provided they submit a completed design package by the end of this period

Can we say strings attached? *wink wink*

I am surprised though that the news media isn't picking this up and holding Queens Park feet to the fire.

 

[crs1026]

The hydrogen slide deck for tomorrow's special Metrolinx Board meeting has been posted on the Metrolinx website here.

The presentation alludes to wires being less than attractive, especially in "fragile" public spaces.

I have been wondering if there is some hidden iceberg that ML or Ontario may be aware of in this respect. Certainly, what I hear about plans for a fifth track in the Sunnyside area, necessitating concrete retaining walls, and leading to a fair amount of defoliation between Exhibition and Mimico, makes me wonder if that stretch along the Gardiner is about to lose its character. Some of the bridgework outlined in the TPAP will certainly affect the character of some places. The wonderful old Wallace Ave pedestrian bridge is another example.

I'm pretty strong on electrification, but I wonder if ML or in Cabinet is aware of a brewing community backlash and just doesn't have enough of a pair to want to take this on. If so, the courageous thing is to table it and let the debate begin. Letting the whole electrification languish because of some controversial local issues is, well, just so Wynne, so McGuinty Liberal.

But I may be overly paranoid.

- Paul

 

[Adjei]

I wonder how Europeans with public spaces which put ours to shame deal with all those ugly wires.

 

[Allandale25]

The presentation alludes to wires being less than attractive, especially in "fragile" public spaces.

I have been wondering if there is some hidden iceberg that ML or Ontario may be aware of in this respect. Certainly, what I hear about plans for a fifth track in the Sunnyside area, necessitating concrete retaining walls, and leading to a fair amount of defoliation between Exhibition and Mimico, makes me wonder if that stretch along the Gardiner is about to lose its character. Some of the bridgework outlined in the TPAP will certainly affect the character of some places. The wonderful old Wallace Ave pedestrian bridge is another example.

I'm pretty strong on electrification, but I wonder if ML or in Cabinet is aware of a brewing community backlash and just doesn't have enough of a pair to want to take this on. If so, the courageous thing is to table it and let the debate begin. Letting the whole electrification languish because of some controversial local issues is, well, just so Wynne, so McGuinty Liberal.

But I may be overly paranoid.

- Paul

There is this FB group for residents who have concerns about the changes to the Lakeshore East line. I think I've also seen some articles about people in Mississauga with concerns about the Lakeshore West line, and the Options 4 Davenport folks want electrification if an overpass is used for the grade separation, but have concerns about the public realm implications, and like to point out the challenge GO has had keeping the noise walls clean on the Kitchener Line.

 

[M636RF]

I don't think these Hyrail trains are any threat to RER electrification. These are trains with only 300 crush capacity and 150 seats...........hardly sufficient on busy lines.

Yes but they want to put fuel cells on Bilevel trains. Then again I'm not sure if its possible to build a bi-level Hydrail multiple unit, especially one that could meet GO's demands.

They were expecting 16 engine deliveries in 2017 but I've not seen any with the extended engine housing in operation.

667, the first unit of the new order, was spotted outside MPI's factory a few months ago. I haven't seen or heard anything about them since then. MPI has experienced delays with other orders (like MBTA's HSP46s), so I wouldn't be surprised if these turn up late as well.