GO Transit Electrification | Metrolinx

[smallspy]

The TPAP describes in detail the need to completely rebuild the bridges at Dufferin, Dowling and iirc Jameson, and to do so before adding electrification. If electrification goes ahead, this will happen.
It sounds like the bridges may need work at some point anyways, but maybe not as urgently.

- Paul

The upcoming work isn't for Dufferin, Dunn, Jameson and Dowling. Parkside, Colborne Lodge and Ellis are the overpasses that need to be taken care of in the next year or two.

The EA for Dufferin has been completed for some time, and is just awaiting funding. As far as I can tell, the EA for Dunn, Jameson and Dowling is still ongoing.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[raptor]

Hydrail Update from the Oct 26 Metrolinx Board meeting

 

[cplchanb]

Hydrail Update from the Oct 26 Metrolinx Board meeting

My gosh this report is totally shaped with making hydrorail rosey. They assume that they can use tesla economics by assuming potential ideal future savings to justifying the undetermined massive overhead costs for this exercise. They think that they can implement this as easily as the germans did but guess again... With such a weak economy and volatile/impotent government expect this to be a butchery taking 3x as long and expensive to get running

 

[crs1026]

It sounds like the Germans have ten years' of research investment.... and no other willing customers quite yet (letters of intent are nice, but the German commitments are less than a contract to buy a proven, in-production model). This makes ML the rube..... excessively motivated to buy, and holding enough funding to allow the researchers to recover the development costs of the technology.

I could even accept the idea of buying into the existing partnership with the Germans, leading to bringing a product to market with ML as a test case. But initially that would be a few test vehicles, not a full hydrified RER route. ML needs to proceed at full speed with stringing wires.

Intersting that the 'base case' spec is built on comparison to Bombardier equipment.

- Paul

 

[Adjei]

This has FAIL written all over it. An unproven technology which nobody is willing to adopt but somehow these morons are willing to adopt it. It will end up taking twice as long and cost 2 times as expensive as electrification.

 

[crs1026]

A low-risk proposition would be to target Bowmanville, Niagara, Richmond Hill and Milton for Hydrogen conversion, while proceeding full speed with electrification on Lakeshore, Stouffville, Barrie, and Bramalea. That would allow new equipment (EMU and/or Electric locos) to be procured now, freeing up existing stock to backstop the hydrogen fleet until its effectiveness is proven. As for Kitchener, the procurement might be held in abeyance while the bypass is being built.

- Paul

 

[junctionist]

Using this unproven technology on such a large scale may jeopardize the advancement of public transit in the region. If it fails, there might not be money to do it right for decades.

 

[M636RF]

Using this unproven technology on such a large scale may jeopardize the advancement of public transit in the region. If it fails, there might not be money to do it right for decades.

I totally agree. In fact, I wonder if this Hydrogen thing will give the PC an excuse to oppose RER if they win.

 

[Adjei]

This has Del Duca's hands all over it. A year ago none of this was mentioned hut now it's front and center acting as a distraction.

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

Here's a video of Alstom's Coradia iLint

 

[jje1000]

I thought there would be some hydrogen production trackside, but apparently the reports makes it so that all the hydrogen production occurs off-site (with tanks being trucked to fueling stations)- which ultimately makes this not much different than a regular diesel train.

They also make no mention of the actual quality of hydrogen trainsets in comparison to electric ones- I wonder how capacity, braking and acceleration compare.

Also interestingly enough:

Mississauga's Hydrogenics makes hydrogen fuel cells used in an aircraft and part of first zero-emission train in Europe.

Hydrogenics has a contract with French multinational Alstom to build zero-emission commuter trains for use in five German cities – which would be the first in the world.

https://www.thestar.com/business/2016/12/27/from-water-to-hydrogen-to-zero-emission-transport.html

Any connections here?

 

[steveintoronto]

This has Del Duca's hands all over it. A year ago none of this was mentioned hut now it's front and center acting as a distraction.

I go one step further. I have reason to believe (I can't give any further support to the claim other than my first hand knowledge that ML has hired outside architects and PR firms to promote electrification) that there's a massive riff within ML brass at this time. And that would most likely divide along the Del Boy fans, and the non-fans.

Suffice to say that careful reading shows the Germans themselves only proposing to use it on 'backwater lines not showing a case for catenary electrification'. These are state and county runs. In other words, routes like Guelph to Guelph Junction and onto Milton, or Cambridge to Guelph. Routes that ML would never electrify. They might even be run by the local transit companies, as Guelph was suggested to by the Dillon Consulting transit report some seven years back. (Guelph Junction Rwy is wholly owned by the City of Guelph).

There is just no way with the present technology, or even for safe operation in the near future, that the amount of torque would be available and the trainset light enough to accelerate and decelerate to meet RER schedules.

The term 'obfuscation' comes to mind.

Del Boy:

Derek Edward Trotter, more commonly known as Del Boy (born 12 July 1945), is the fictional lead character in the popular BBC sitcom Only Fools and Horses ...Del is known for his broken French quotes which are usually completely out of context and a variety of catchphrases, including: "He who dares – wins!", "This time next year we'll be millionaires", "Lovely Jubbly!", "You know it makes sense" (which he usually says to his customers after they've agreed on a deal) and "You plonker!" (which he usually says to Rodney).[...]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_Boy

Wynne had best drop the Del Liability and soon. He's doing far more harm than good. The Cons must love him...

 

[jje1000]

Mississauga's Hydrogenics makes hydrogen fuel cells used in an aircraft and part of first zero-emission train in Europe.

Hydrogenics has a contract with French multinational Alstom to build zero-emission commuter trains for use in five German cities – which would be the first in the world.

https://www.thestar.com/business/2016/12/27/from-water-to-hydrogen-to-zero-emission-transport.html

Any connections here?

Well Hydrogenics does pop up a few times on the Liberal donor's list according to Elections Ontario. I wonder what else there might be...

 

[cplchanb]

at this critical juncture, the govt has no right to dangle with long term future of our infrastructure based on ideoligical principles and unproven tech.
weve got nothing to show for and our network is nowhere near the point where we can risk money and resources to try this novelty. perhaps when hydrogen has been fully developed and utilized by more developed networks
long term would this be something to look at.

 

[jje1000]

I go one step further. I have reason to believe (I can't give any further support to the claim other than my first hand knowledge that ML has hired outside architects and PR firms to promote electrification) that there's a massive riff within ML brass at this time. And that would most likely divide along the Del Boy fans, and the non-fans.

Wynne had best drop the Del Liability and soon. He's doing far more harm than good. The Cons must love him...

at this critical juncture, the govt has no right to dangle with long term future of our infrastructure based on ideoligical principles and unproven tech.
weve got nothing to show for and our network is nowhere near the point where we can risk money and resources to try this novelty. perhaps when hydrogen has been fully developed and utilized by more developed networks
long term would this be something to look at.

I think it's worth exploring some more to see the motives at play- and whether or not this has the workings of yet another "Del Duca Stations" written on it.