Eglinton Transit: Alignment between Don Mills and Kennedy.

Discussion in 'Transportation & Infrastructure' started by BurlOak, Feb 26, 2012.

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What alignment should be used for Eglinton transit between Don Mills and Kennedy?

  1. At-grade – median (Transit City)

    29 vote(s)
    63.0%
  2. Underground (Ford)

    2 vote(s)
    4.3%
  3. Elevated

    11 vote(s)
    23.9%
  4. Other

    4 vote(s)
    8.7%
  1. BurlOak

    BurlOak Senior Member

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    The Eglinton Transit line has already begun construction and there are still several options that could be considered.

    1. The original Transit City proposal is to have an in-median, at-grade LRT running from Brentcliffe Ave to just west of Don Mills. At Don Mills, it would be underground for the interchange with the Don Mills LRT, or DRL, whatever will be built. After Don Mills it would be run in-median, at-grade again until about Kennedy Road where it would go underground again. Note that the Eglinton, Scarborough-Malvern, and SRT (running through STC) would all terminate at this station.
    2. The Ford Proposal had the entire Eglinton portion from Brentcliffe to Kennedy Station underground, with the SRT portion (going to STC) running straight through to the Eglinton line.
    3. Based on many comments from this and other discussion groups, another viable option seems to exist, that is not discussed by any public leads. From Brentcliffe to Don Mills, the line could be on the South side of the road. This would require a new bridge over the Don River West Branch and a pair of tunnels through the CPR embankment. East of Don Mills, the possibility exists to elevate the line until it dips underground at Kennedy similar to the other proposals (or even stays at grade).
    4. Although the order has already been placed for LRT vehicles, the supplier, Bombardier can supply many types of vehicles so it still may be possible to alter the contract – although it may be too late at this time. Each technology has advantages and disadvantages.

    Based on the above, I have created several polls to see what the UT preferences are. I do not expect this thread to be long lived, but I am curious as to what the preferences are. Many arguments have been made in other threads on the various options, so I hope we do not repeat everything again here - keep your reasoning brief.

    This poll is on the alignment between Don Mills and Kennedy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2012
    #1

  2. dunkalunk

    dunkalunk Senior Member

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    I can support an at-grade option, However, stations would need to have subway spacing. In my dream proposal, The Wynford station would be In-median grade separated, Victoria Park Station would need to be underground, and the only other station would be at Warden. This would keep speeds between stations at a maximum.
     
    #2
  3. sixrings

    sixrings Senior Member

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    I too would like to support at grade if the station distance were far enough apart (similar to their underground station proposal) but close enough that they aren't forced to run a duplicate bus service
     
    #3
  4. M II A II R II K

    M II A II R II K Senior Member

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    There's room to run it parallel to the street and behind those condo buildings and stuff.
     
    #4
  5. W. K. Lis

    W. K. Lis Senior Member

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    I voted "At-grade – median " because it would be a more cost effective manner to provide rapid transit. The only addition I would add to to have grade separation at the major intersections. A major intersection would be one that has a non-branch main TTC route on it. The only undo I would add is how accessible it would be. Escalators and elevators break down or mischief puts them out of service, which is why at-grade would be preferred if they do not double the number of escalators and elevators (which would only add to the cost).
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2012
    #5
  6. spider

    spider Senior Member

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    I haven't noticed any plan to shorten existing bus routes that run west to Yonge street along this section of Eglinton Avenue.

    If the plan is to transfer bus riders to the new line where these busses reach Eglinton wouldn't it be cheaper to run at grade rather than underground considering the cost of an underground station at all these transfer points?
     
    #6
  7. gweed123

    gweed123 Senior Member

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    Location:
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    Other: At-grade, but ducking under major intersections.
     
    #7
  8. Neil

    Neil Active Member

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    Other:

    - portal S of Eglinton, just east of Brentcliffe
    - separate crossing over W. Don branch below street level, just talking covered culvert
    - tunnel jack under rail line
    - stay S of Eglinton, close Celestica underpass
    - build station in Science Centre parking lot, rough in DRL tunnels underneath
    - stay underground until in-median portal half way between Don Mills and DVP
    - in median going E but, cut&cover going beneath Victoria Park/Eglinton Sq, Pharmacy shemozzle
    - portal W of Kennedy, underground into Kennedy station
     
    #8
  9. BurlOak

    BurlOak Senior Member

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    I do not quite understand this suggestion.

    Major intersection on this stretch are: Victoria Park, Pharmacy, Warden, Birchmount and Kennedy. The first 2 are 400m apart and the remainder are 800m apart. For grade separation at intersections, you would need a clearance of about 5.5m, plus beams about 2.5m deep to span across the intersection.

    Thus, at 4%, it would take about 200m on either side of the intersection to start the climb to go over the intersection. Thus, the line would go up for 200m, pass the centreline of cross road, then down for 200m after a road, run at grade for 400m, and then climb again for 200m - and repeat at each intersection. This seems to be going up and down like a roller coaster. At Vic Park and Phramacy, it would probably stay elevated for the entire length - reducing the number of up-down movements to 4. The other question is stations. Either every station must be located 200m from the intersection to be at grade, or the station needs to be elevated - which would add an extra 100m to each elevated portion.


    I don't know how you voted for "At-grade – median", when this sounds like it is between "elevated" and "other". Did you imagine having the crossroad going over top of Eglinton?
     
    #9
  10. W. K. Lis

    W. K. Lis Senior Member

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    If they want to spend the money to double up on the number of escalators and elevators for accessibility (during a repair job, there still would be a backup running) then grade separation would be fine. However, to save money, at-grade would be the way to go, which would still be accessible.
     
    #10
  11. dunkalunk

    dunkalunk Senior Member

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    In a system at-grade, if stations are close enough that a paralell bus service is not required then I don't see how the line could be considered rapid transit. We don't need central BD spacing (750m) on this line, but instead spacing similar to Yonge north of Eglinton (1-2 km). Paralell bus service will complement the line very well.
     
    #11
  12. Justin10000

    Justin10000 Banned

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    ^^Define Rapid Transit.
     
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  13. dunkalunk

    dunkalunk Senior Member

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    I didn't want to get into an argument of semantics, but personally, I put the threshold at around 30km/h average line speed. I don't remember if the speed limit on Eglinton is 50km/h or 60, but with the stops the way they are currently located, I can't see the line getting above 25km/h in the surface section with stops as frequent as they are.

    My main point is that the stations need to be set wider apart in order to effectively move passengers around. Apart from the increase in capacity, I don't see the point of building a light rail line if an express bus with queue jump could get similar speeds on the same corridor.
     
    #13
  14. Standard

    Standard New Member

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    Don Mills has a plan to build a station with 5 bus bays. Leslie's bus is very infrequent that a simple loop near Leslie and Eglinton can serve it adequately.

    http://www.toronto.ca/involved/proj...pdf/2009-06-15-to-25_display_boards_part2.pdf
     
    #14
  15. spider

    spider Senior Member

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    The Lawrence E bus #54 meets Eglinton at Leslie as well as the Leslie bus. At this point in time, sunday PM, the #54 route has more vehicles in service than Eglinton E and Leslie combined, a ratio that probably exists in Peak periods as well.

    I have seen opinions that Leslie Street doesn't warrant a stop because there is nothing there but a car dealership. I guess they didn't notice the park and a lot of bus traffic turning west bound for the Yonge Street subway.

    Have all the other bus routes that pound along Eglinton to the Subway been ignored as a planning inconvenience too, if so what is the point of this exercise?
     
    #15

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