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Education of newcomers to Canada (moved from transport)

PUBLICATION: National Post
DATE: 2009.02.13
EDITION: National
SECTION: Issues & Ideas
PAGE: A16
ILLUSTRATION: Color Photo: Adnan Abidi, Reuters / Students reach out tokiss a cutout of U. S. President Barack Obama in New Delhi. ;
DATELINE: BANGALORE, India
BYLINE: Thomas L. Friedman
SOURCE: The New York Times
WORD COUNT: 858

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Immigrant stimulus

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Leave it to a brainy Indian to come up with the cheapest and surest way to stimulate America's economy: immigration.

"All you need to do is grant visas to two million Indians, Chinese and Koreans," said Shekhar Gupta, editor of The Indian Express newspaper. "We will buy up all the subprime homes. We will work 18 hours a day to pay for them. We will immediately improve your savings rate -- no Indian bank today has more than 2% nonperforming loans because not paying your mortgage is considered shameful here. And we will start new companies to create our own jobs and jobs for more Americans."

While his tongue was slightly in cheek, Gupta and many other Indian business people I spoke to this week were trying to make a point that sometimes non-Americans can make best: "Dear America, please remember how you got to be the wealthiest country in history. It wasn't through protectionism, or state-owned banks or fearing free trade. No, the formula was very simple: build this really flexible, really open economy, tolerate creative destruction so dead capital is quickly redeployed to better ideas and companies, pour into it the most diverse, smart and energetic immigrants from every corner of the world and then stir and repeat, stir and repeat, stir and repeat, stir and repeat."

While I think President Barack Obama has been doing his best to keep the worst protectionist impulses in Congress out of his stimulus plan, the U. S. Senate unfortunately voted on Feb. 6 to restrict banks and other financial institutions that receive taxpayer bailout money from hiring high-skilled immigrants on temporary work permits.

Bad signal. In an age when attracting the first-round intellectual draft choices from around the world is the most important competitive advantage a knowledge economy can have, why would we add barriers against such brainpower -- anywhere? That's called "Old Europe." That's spelled: S-TU-P-I-D.

"If you do this, it will be one of the best things for India and one of the worst for Americans, [because] Indians will be forced to innovate at home," said Subhash B. Dhar, a member of the executive council that runs Infosys, the well-known Indian technology company that sends Indian workers to the U. S. to support a wide range of firms. "We protected our jobs for many years and look where it got us. Do you know that for an Indian company, it is still easier to do business with a company in the U. S. than it is to do business with another Indian state?"

Each Indian state tries to protect its little economy with its own rules. America should not be trying to copy that. "Your attitude," said Dhar, should be " 'whoever can make us competitive and dominant, let's bring them in.' "

If there is one thing we know for absolute certain, it's this: Protectionism did not cause the Great Depression, but it sure helped to make it "Great." From 1929 to 1934, world trade plunged by more than 60% --and we were all worse off.

We live in a technological age where every study shows that the more knowledge you have as a worker and the more knowledge workers you have as an economy, the faster your incomes will rise. Therefore, the centrepiece of our stimulus, the core driving principle, should be to stimulate everything that makes us smarter and attracts more smart people to our shores. That is the best way to create good jobs.

According to research by Vivek Wadhwa, a senior research associate at the Labor and Worklife Pro-gram at Harvard Law School, more than half of Silicon Valley start-ups were founded by immigrants over the last decade. These immigrant-founded tech companies employed 450,000 workers and had sales of US$52-billion in 2005, said Wadhwa in an essay published this week on BusinessWeek.com.

He also cited a recent study by William R. Kerr of Harvard Business School and William F. Lincoln of the University of Michigan that "found that in periods when visa numbers went down, so did patent applications filed by immigrants [in the U. S.]. And when visa numbers went up, patent applications followed suit."

We don't want to come out of this crisis with just inflation, a mountain of debt and more shovel-ready jobs. We want to -- we have to -- come out of it with a new Intel, Google, Microsoft and Apple. I would have loved to have seen the stimulus package include a government-funded venture capital bank to help finance all the startups that are clearly not starting up today -- in the clean-energy space they're dying like flies --because of a lack of liquidity from traditional lending sources.

Newsweek had an essay this week that began: "Could Silicon Valley become another Detroit?" Well, yes, it could. When the best brains in the world are on sale, you don't shut them out. You open your doors wider. We need to attack this financial crisis with green cards not just greenbacks, and with start-ups not just bailouts. One Detroit is enough.

Actually, I heard this from a conservative person from wall street - and I like the idea. Open up immigration to anyone that buys and holds a house within a certain amount of time - and then allow them the option to become a resident with a certain amount of time (5 years). It allows people the right to immigrate - become resident - in a time-frame that allows them to look for work, and it hopefully reduces the oversupply of housing.
 
Just a comment on this, in general it is harder to get dual citizenry for the US than it is for Canada (US likes to make someone give up their other citizenship before accepting an application

I believe this was the case, but I also believe this changed more than a decade ago. There are lots of dual citizens (canada/us)
 
I believe this was the case, but I also believe this changed more than a decade ago. There are lots of dual citizens (canada/us)

Most of them though are offspring of US citizens. Depends on region too, the countries more deemed "undesirable" have US agents supposedly make prospective immigrants give up their foreign citizenship or face hefty holdings (government makes them use/invest/extort large sums of cash in the US, it's part of the reason why there are so many illegal immigrants).
 
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Most of them though are offspring of US citizens.

Many movie stars are technically dual citizens as well. Pamela Anderson, Eric McCormack, etc have technically not given up their Canadian citizenship.
 
As long as you continue to see yourself as a foreigner, no one will accept you as a Canadian. If you assert yourself as Canadian, then eventually people might change their mind. In any case, most Chinese people don't see me as "Chinese," culturally speaking. That's why they call CBCs, jook sing - a hollow bamboo. Some people hate the term, but I wear it with pride :)

I have to wonder where you grew up. Even though I've never been to China/HK (the furthest I've ever been to is Mexico for a vacation) my entire life, growing up for a few years in school pretty much all white (back in the mid 80's) people go out of the way to make sure you know you are different.
 
I have to wonder where you grew up. Even though I've never been to China/HK (the furthest I've ever been to is Mexico for a vacation) my entire life, growing up for a few years in school pretty much all white (back in the mid 80's) people go out of the way to make sure you know you are different.

I grew up in a very Jewish area in North York but attended Catholic school for most of the elementary grades. High school was at a private all girls' school with lots of foreign students from Asia. They also went out of the way to make sure CBCs were different.

I graduated from high school in 1998.
 
When immigration to Canada becomes something that is difficult and requires dedication, you will ensure that you get the kind of people you want in this society. When immigration to Canada is easy and open (as it relatively is now), well, you get Toronto, 2009. I support the idea that knowing English should be a prerequisite for entering the country. I think people get confused sometimes about what is racist and what isn't. Saying that you want people to be fluent in English isn't racist. My parents have strong accents and not much proficiency, and I can see how it causes trouble in various walks of life, so I can completely understand why we shouldn't encourage that.

Maybe this would also reduce people taking advantage of the loose immigration system, like that story a while back about Hong Kongers using Canada as a "way stop" to get their kids educated then fleeing back to Asia.

For immigrant education, it's not that Canada is completely free of blame. In the United States the stats for Chinese and Indians among other immigrants are much higher socioeconomically than the average population, because people can bring over their qualifications and then begin contributing to society soon enough. In Canada you just hear all the news stories about more educational qualification problems as people enter the country.

On the other topic, I graduated from a "multicultural" school and about half of the immigrants socialized with everyone (these were mostly so-called "whitewashed" Chinese, South Asians, etc) and then the other half clustered together in ethnic groups. As another proud "banana" myself, there is also the teasing you hear for "acting white". And of course with the huge Chinese community always disapproving at you if you step too far outside (though by having a non-Chinese immigrant partner, I'm way beyond that point).

Maybe if immigration was stricter there wouldn't an anti-immigration sentiment bubbling about. My new neighbor barely talks to me and my partner (both clearly foreign-looking immigrants) but is very outgoing and cheerful with the Western-looking Syrians on the other side. I'm willing to bet he will also go around complaining about how immigrants don't assimilate into society as well :rolleyes:
 
My new neighbor barely talks to me and my partner (both clearly foreign-looking immigrants) but is very outgoing and cheerful with the Western-looking Syrians on the other side. I'm willing to bet he will also go around complaining about how immigrants don't assimilate into society as well :rolleyes:

lol!

Unfortunately that's not new.
 
Well, obviously I don't know your neighbours - but if they are have the attitude that you suspect - then it is their problem. You can of course take the first step, and have a little neighbourhood party for your neighbours and invite them over during the summer - see if you can break the ice. I find that often people get cocooned into not really getting to know their neighbours (especially in condominiums) in Toronto. I actually find it hard to get to know my neighbours because I always feel a little awkward with new people, don't necessarily know what to talk about (not good at small talk), but once I have known them for a while (like at work), then it is easy. Not sure how long the western Syrians are in your area. Is it possible that the Syrians are much more outgoing and broke the ice first? Anyways, you can make an attempt - and if it does not work out - then they weren't worth it in the first place.

Question, are you gay? i.e. you used the word partner and I find that more common among people that are gay. i.e. Is it possible that he might feel uncomfortable because you are gay.... I find that even those that say that they are liberal -- that a number of people still feel a little uncomfortable (especially guys) - with gay people - more than have problems with ethnicity actually. My guess is that it has something about guys typically over estimating their looks, and worrying about how to respond to someone approaching them :rolleyes: (sorry talking about my boss there)

I think I actually have more friends that are CBC or Chinese Canadians or Japanese descent or Vietnamese decent or indian descent than those that are caucasian.... yet to figure out why.... It could be work related, or maybe it was that I always felt like an outsider when growing up (at school) so subconsciously I my associations are formed based on that.
 
For those of you who are saying that Americans of East and South Asian descent are enjoying higher socio-economic standards than Canadians, I'm definitely NOT seeing that, at least not in New York. I am there several times a year. Perhaps things are different in California and other parts of the west coast. In Toronto (and probably Vancouver), anyway, I've seen MANY East Asian and South Asian people (Canadian born or immigrant) who are at historically white environments like country clubs, independent schools (ok, some are foreign students in this case - these schools generally charge $20K for day fees and twice that for boarding), volunteer groups etc....With the case of country clubs, these people are NOT staff or guests (including going there because their club in the old country has reciprocal status).

On Jenny having a "partner": I've heard of straight, common law couples who use the term "partner" as well.
 
I grew up in a very Jewish area in North York but attended Catholic school for most of the elementary grades. High school was at a private all girls' school with lots of foreign students from Asia. They also went out of the way to make sure CBCs were different.

I graduated from high school in 1998.

So you're born in 79 I take it (unless you don't count OAC as graduating HS back when it was there) and when you say Jewish part of North York you probably mean by Bathurst?

EDit: LOL It's hard to find other Bananas regularly and here on this board there are already several! Where the hell do you guys all hide out T_T
 
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So you're born in 79 I take it (unless you don't count OAC as graduating HS back when it was there) and when you say Jewish part of North York you probably mean by Bathurst?

No, Bayview/Steeles (and later, Yonge/York Mills). I went to the local public school for JK & SK (Catholic school in for Grade 1-5; public school again in Grade 6 and private school from Grade 7 to OAC), but the vast majority of the students in my class were Jewish. I think there were only 3 or 4 kids in the class during the High Holy Days.

ETA: Yes, I was born in '79.

ETA again: I think Jook Sings/Bananas just somehow "blend in" with other Chinese Canadians. You can't really tell if someone is Jook Sing or a non-CBC who's just been in Canada since junior high until he/she starts talking.
 
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(disregard post from bf's account)

>>Question, are you gay? i.e. you used the word partner and I find that more common among people that are gay. i.e. Is it possible that he might feel uncomfortable because you are gay....
Oh sorry, I just prefer the word partner to boyfriend, I didn't realize that it had implications about sexual orientation. No it's not a gay relationship. We're not married yet either but I don't think he would know that. It could be maybe he doesn't like inter-ethnic couples but I don't see why an inter-immigrant-ethnic couple would offend him.

Anyways, I'm happy to say that this is one of the RARE exceptions to the rule and that usually the treatment I get from "native" Canadians is usually very friendly. But what I don't like is that its a situation where the man seems to not want to socialize or interact with us for being foreign, but now to an outsider it looks like I'm being a typical isolationist immigrant or whatever, fueling the stereotype. But I think the Chinese have it better than others in some regard. I think this probably happens to Muslims or blacks more often, sadly. And I am very outgoing to my neighbors, always friendly, he just doesn't seem interested. Which is a shame because I've always enjoyed having close relationships with neighbors.


>>>For those of you who are saying that Americans of East and South Asian descent are enjoying higher socio-economic standards than Canadians, I'm definitely NOT seeing that, at least not in New York.

Not sure about Canada, actually, I'm just going by what I hear about immigrants having trouble finding work and such. In America the incomes are as follows:

South Asian Indian $68,771
Chinese $57,433
White $48,784

I don't know if any immigrant group has exceeded the white average in Canada, though.
 
Oh sorry, I just prefer the word partner to boyfriend, I didn't realize that it had implications about sexual orientation

I was first introduced to the term partner by a number of my sister's friends (I would say at that time half of her friends were gay) but that is a long time ago, so it has stuck in my head in that connection. Of course, 20 years have passed since that time, so I would not be surprised that it is now generally used - but in my head it still has an association. Times change.... :rolleyes:

Sounds like like your neighbour has issues.... don't let his stupidity drag you down :)
 
(disregard post from bf's account)

South Asian Indian $68,771
Chinese $57,433
White $48,784

I don't know if any immigrant group has exceeded the white average in Canada, though.

You have to remember that in the 90s, many HK immigrants were living off their invested income and not working at all. I also think the US has more second generation ABCs per capita than we have second generation CBCs which can skew the stats a bit.


Most CBCs (these people are in their late 20s to early 30s) have parents who came to the country in the 1970s. Their parents worked as doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc...People who came in the early 90s or later are more likely to have job issues.
 

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