Death of Clubland (aka: Is Adam Vaughan trying to kill the Club District?)

[lvteos234]

The "we were here first" argument is b.s. There have always been residents in the Entertainment District, and they were able to coexist for a time. They didn't form a residents' association until ~2004 in response to skyrocketing club density and the wonderful side effects that came with it. The number of residents and businesses have doubled and quadrupled since then and continues to rise. Big surprise: nightclubs and mixed-use development don't mix.

Instead of adapting or moving, some of the nightclub operators hired publicists and formed lobby groups. Some actually went the extra mile of installing extra soundproofing and obeying AGCO codes of conduct in order to be good neighbours. But with such a high concentration, if you throw a few irresponsible club operators into the mix, there's not really much the good ones can do.

If there was always residents in the area then why are they just complaining now? I dont recall reading many stories in the late 90's about residents complaining about clubs in the 'club' district. Its called the club district for a reason.

Now, I'm not in any way condoning the activities that go on there, especially those done by people that get out of hand and those done by the irresponsible club owners who serve and care for no one's interest but themselves. Even though I no longer go to clubs myself, I still see a value in having a club district in this city, and if everytime a resident complained that they dont want xxx business in an area that they moved into (knowing very well the business has been next door for the past 30 years) then there simply wont be any place left for these businesses to go, except for maybe to go outside the city.

 

[grey]

If there was always residents in the area then why are they just complaining now? I dont recall reading many stories in the late 90's about residents complaining about clubs in the 'club' district. Its called the club district for a reason.

There was not always such an intense concentration. The number of clubs grew quickly after the King-Spadina Part II Official Plan was implemented in '96. Rapid growth with no controls or standards. The peak was close to 90 nightclubs in less than one square kilometer (see the problem?). That was around 2005. I think it's less than 30 now.

 

[Urban Shocker]

Clubland was fun while it lasted, a unique attraction that can now be spoken of in a historical context. While I'm obviously not of the age demographic to have gone there ( well, okay, we had our office Xmas party in Still Life, the first club, in the late 1980s ... ) I wish the equivalent district had existed for us back in the 1970s. Time hurtles along , boys and girls, so savour these experiences before they're gone.

 

[nfitz]

There are other solutions to this than simply shutting the entire district down. Eliminating last call is one excellent solution.

Is last call really such an issue since it was extended? I'm usually more worried about last subway train than last call. Though it's been a couple of decades since I've been in a club. (Did we even call them clubs back then?) I guess some of my peers still do ... we have a word for them though ... cougars.

 

[paraone]

I've always though of last call to be the catalyst for most of these problems, the clubs all empty out at the same time... if there was no last call, we would have people leaving at different times, not all in one shot

 

[BMO]

I've always though of last call to be the catalyst for most of these problems, the clubs all empty out at the same time... if there was no last call, we would have people leaving at different times, not all in one shot

Actually I agree with this, but a friend of mine gave me an interesting take on it. He said that if last call is at 2 or at a certain hour, the police can easily predict when and where they should be to prevent any problems from occurring, because they know when the clubs will be letting out at.

I'd prefer no last-call, and I think having no last-call would improve the safety downtown at night overall as it will attract more people being out all throughout the night, "eyes on the street" if you will. Right now when it turns 3am it's kind of like all the clubs and police are saying it's time to go to bed, because everything closes.

 

[nfitz]

So get rid of last call then ... would make getting home from the bar easier when the subway opens at 6 AM.

 

[Jonny5]

I was just reading an article in the LA times about their high end night club industry and how it's sustained by pulling in types like pro-athletes and celebrities who may spend thousands or even tens of thousands a night. I know you can find this in other US cities too where there is lots of money floating around, like New York, Miami and San Francisco.

Do we have high end night clubs where people regularly drop thousands of dollars on bottles of expensive champagne and vodka? I've always believed there are people who do this kind of stuff here, but frankly I can't figure where or when (I'm excluding when TIFF is on). I'm not really the type to hang around the Entertainment District or King West, so I don't know exactly what everyone does there, but I've never gotten that vibe when I have been out in the area. Sure, there are people throwing money around and getting bottle service at VIP (or VVIP etc..) tables, but I don't think they are spending thousands of dollars, or are they? Maybe in Yorkville?

If you are say, Jose Bautista, and you want to party and drop some serious cash doing it, where do you go?

 

[MetroMan]

Absolutely. Most clubs on King St. West charge hundreds of dollars per booth as a base. I easily see booths top thousands a night, without blinking an eye. The higher end clubs like Maison Mercer or those in Yorkville will see patrons dropping the high thousands and sometimes tens of.

Toronto has a lot of young entrepreneurs with plenty of disposable income. We also have athletes and celebrities. Of course you won't see them at the disneyland type clubs on Richmond/Peter/John, but the same goes in the US: they spend their thousands at the high end clubs.

By the way, since we're revisiting this thread, in retrospect, we can say that Adam Vaughan wasn't successful in killing the club district. He just moved it. It's now on King West mostly between Spadina and Bathurst. I anticipate that it will again move Westward as the residential continues to build out in its current home.

 

[freshcutgrass]

Do we have high end night clubs where people regularly drop thousands of dollars on bottles of expensive champagne and vodka?

As long as there are pretentious trust fund kids, and their stunted adolescent older counterparts....there will be those kinds of places....including Toronto. At least it's not quite as bad as some US places, where they hire Paris Hilton to show up for an hour. I find it quite funny how Toronto "clubs" still think parking exotic cars outside is a big thrill.

By the way, since we're revisiting this thread, in retrospect, we can say that Adam Vaughan wasn't successful in killing the club district. He just moved it. It's now on King West mostly between Spadina and Bathurst.

I have unfortunately discovered this by being stuck on a streetcar on Sat night taking forever to get between Spadina & Bathurst. I expected the King stretch to be a bit more grown up than the clubland area around queen/john, but upon witnessing it, it's the same pathetic crowd.

The idea of "ghettoizing" anything is a bad idea. There should be places for everybody in every neighbourhood...including bars/clubs for the young crowd who wants to do that. That way every jackass 20 year-old in the entire GTA doesn't have to decent in one area.

But "Clubland" isn't fizzling out because of Adam Vaughan. It's just transitioning. Besides the clubs, the "Entertainment District" (including its western extenuation on King) has a great mixed-use base of many other things. It's the condo industry that has zeroed in on this area that will truly change it....and for the better. It has a great base of nice old buildings and terrific mixed-use already in place. When every parking lot and junky building is torn down and replaced by 40-50 floor residential towers, we will for the first time actually see the "Manhattanization" of Toronto.

There can even be some "clubs", but to serve the locals...not the entire GTA.

I predict the "Entertainment District" will become the city's highest density area.

 

[MetroMan]

I expected the King stretch to be a bit more grown up than the clubland area around queen/john, but upon witnessing it, it's the same pathetic crowd.

It used to be. Clubs like Century Room, Brant House and Brassaii used to be 25+ clubs. Now you'll find kids in all these places, and you can see them fighting, shouting, puking on King St. after 2am. It's official: this is the new entertainment district.

But "Clubland" isn't fizzling out because of Adam Vaughan. It's just transitioning.

I disagree. Clubs were transitioning in place for decades. Clubs would open, become popular, run their course, and would be flipped into new clubs by the same or new owners. This happened for many years. Vaughan put in place policies that made it difficult to open new clubs and easy for developers to buy them and turn them into condos.

This has effectively killed the Entertainment District -- as it was in its original boundaries -- but those partiers and business people who catered to them simply moved a few blocks west.

 

[TheKingEast]

Typically you're going to spend no less than $600 for a booth with 2 bottles. That's as cheap as it comes. Bottles are about 250 or so and most places on King West have 2 bottle minimum. This is for the basic of the basic (Smirnoff, Bacardi, etc). If you want Grey Goose or "premium" alcohol the price sky rockets. A booth can easily go over a few thousand without even blinking an eye.

Metroman is right though. Clubland moved West. I don't even go near that area anymore, the whole vibe has changed. King West was a place you went to get away from the fights, metal detectors, police, vomit, etc....

So where does a 30 year old find a mature crowd to party with now?

 

[freshcutgrass]

I disagree. Clubs were transitioning in place for decades. Clubs would open, become popular, run their course, and would be flipped into new clubs by the same or new owners. This happened for many years.

But that's not transitioning. Clubland happened because that area was underused and the perfect location for it. Between the restored loft office market and the condo industry putting it in its cross-hairs, it's no longer a cheap rent district. Those clubs are like discount book stores and dollar stores along retail strips....just cheap rent fillers until it gentrifies and they get forced out.

This is more of a natural progression, rather than some grand plan by a city councillor. But can you really blame whatever political pressure may have been added to the mix? It was a bad idea, and it really did get out of hand. The death of Clubland is doing everyone a favour....including the kids who are pissed about it.

It used to be. Clubs like Century Room, Brant House and Brassaii used to be 25+ clubs. Now you'll find kids in all these places, and you can see them fighting, shouting, puking on King St. after 2am. It's official: this is the new entertainment district.

I see this as short-lived. First of all, there's not as much available space, and a lot of them are located either in buildings that are going to be torn down for new development or spaces that will find higher paying tenants.

The "Entertainment District" still exists....I hope people didn't think those clubs were the only form of "entertainment".

The natural place for a bunch of clubs would be Yonge, between Queen & Bloor. It would be better, because instead of a few giant mega-clubs, you could have a lot of smaller places all lined up. Wouldn't be a new idea, as that's where the "scene" was in the past.

“There should be more of an effort to preserve the centre. Yonge Street was this Mecca of talent, and it isn’t just about the music – it’s about the whole community, and the characters. It was the centre of Toronto’s nightlife and entertainment, so I feel somewhat nostalgic about it, because it probably meant more to me than it would have done to a lot of people today. Yonge Street shouldn’t become a discarded part of the history of the city.”

Robbie Robertson

So where does a 30 year old find a mature crowd to party with now?

1...stop calling it "partying"
2...start hanging out with 40 year olds

 

[MetroMan]

So where does a 30 year old find a mature crowd to party with now?

Liberty Village has a more mature crowd. Maison Mercer has a 28yr/old (for men) minimum although that's not always enforced. Nonetheless, you won't see the fighting/puking crowd there. Most people are well dressed and 25+. Then you've got Yorkville, but I don't frequent it much, though I know it's a more upscale clientele.

 

[OttoSchloss]

I'd argue it's the high end exclusiveness of clubland that killed club culture period. Granted most clubs in the 80s and early 90s were dives but what made them fun was the music (you'd rarely hear anywhere else or else first at a club) and the mix of people -street kids, punks, trustafarians, people slumming etc.

That's all gone and bottle service and VIP rooms seem to sustain them now -and the clientele is universally bland and uninteresting.

And last call is a ridiculous leftover from another era.