AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
You can reject a bus terminal on its' own merit letting constant the BD extension. The proponent can do better than this.
AoD
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You can reject a bus terminal on its' own merit letting constant the BD extension. The proponent can do better than this.
AoD
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Nobody is going to cancel a $3.5 Billion subway extension because of a $0.2 Bilion flawed bus terminal. That's would be ridiculous. You can completely build the extension while modifying the bus terminal to be pedestrian friendly. We're not doing ourselves any favours by pretending flawed elements of the project are perfect. That's how you end up with situations like the current SRT to Line 2 transfer
Claiming that people won't complain isnt a particularly compelling argument when we have obtuse transfers on the TTC, such as the Spadina Line 1 to Line 2 transfer, that people frequently complain about.
Also the Finch transfer is much, much shorter than what's proposed for Scarborough.
And whether or not they complain about it, it's a factor that's slowing their trip and making transit less attractive. Ideally we're not building transit to pacify complaints, but rather to move people as effectively as possible.
Hopkins123
Senior Member
Okay, fair enough. I see where you are getting at.
Ideally the SCC station box would be built as directly to the pre-exisitng bus terminal as possible to avoid issues of long walking times, but if it must be shifted east, I suppose a better solution would be a stacked bus terminal like Wilson's directly atop the subway with up to three sets of elevators directly linking the upper and lower bus platforms to the subway platform.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
They didn't go with this configuration because they want to maximize developable space. The proposal in your image would require building the terminal on parking lots adjacent to the mall that could be developed.
That's an unacceptable tradeoff, in my opinion. In all likelihood, the development at this location will be high density residential, which we all know is a very poor source of transit ridership compared to commercial developments. On this land we'd get maybe 1,500 residential units (that's roughly 3,000 residents), and only a fraction of those residents would even use transit. This pales in comparison to the tens of thousands of daily commuters that will be negatively impacted due to poor terminal placement.
OneCity
Senior Member
Re: Bus Bay
Is there anything preventing a design to split the bus bay into two. Half on the east side of Progress and half on the west side to straddle the subway station. It looks like access on the west side could easily be done on either Progess or Triton.
Is there anything preventing a design to split the bus bay into two. Half on the east side of Progress and half on the west side to straddle the subway station. It looks like access on the west side could easily be done on either Progess or Triton.
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Sakraycore
Active Member
When will construction begin? If construction begins in 5 years from now on, obviously the costs will balloon from the current $3.5M to something much higher due to inflation...
OneCity
Senior Member
Id imagine construction starts around 2020 if no major delays occur at City Hall which will likely be dictated by who is Mayor after next election. If Tory is still at the helm construction will start next term.
Inflation is what it is, hence the urgency to avoid further delay on any projects
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OneCity
Senior Member
https://www.brainhunter.com/frontof...ode=pl389&jobId=2282536&page=search&external=
Major Responsibilities:
Reporting to the Manager, Transit Design and Development Unit, the Senior Community Planner will be responsible for leading the delivery of complex planning issues related to the planning and implementation of the Scarborough Subway Extension (SSE) in the City Planning Division or other transit projects.....
Major Responsibilities:
Reporting to the Manager, Transit Design and Development Unit, the Senior Community Planner will be responsible for leading the delivery of complex planning issues related to the planning and implementation of the Scarborough Subway Extension (SSE) in the City Planning Division or other transit projects.....
Sakraycore
Active Member
Looks like it's moving along still which is good I guess. Something about RT transfer to subway is a bit weird especially when STC is in the heart of Scarborough.
OneCity
Senior Member
W. K. Lis
Superstar
In the above report, they may go with a single boring machine instead of two.
With the single tunnel, the new station could be using platforms on the sides, instead of a center platform, due to difficulties diverting tracks to the sides from a single tunnel.
A comprehensive assessment was conducted to compare TTC’s traditional approach–using two, 6 metre diameter tunnels with each direction of track in a separate tunnel–
with the alternative of accommodating both sets of tracks in a single, large diameter tunnel.
With twin tunnels, there would be a significantly greater length of cut-and-cover construction required; the crossover track locations, the station box, and the tail track beyond the station. The assessment concluded that a 10.7 metre tunnel would be lower project cost, and would significantly reduce the extent of cut-and-cover construction as the crossovers and tail track could be constructed within the tunnel.
Given these benefits–reduction in cut-and-cover construction impacts and reduced capital costs–the 10.7 metre diameter tunnel is proposed for this Project.
with the alternative of accommodating both sets of tracks in a single, large diameter tunnel.
With twin tunnels, there would be a significantly greater length of cut-and-cover construction required; the crossover track locations, the station box, and the tail track beyond the station. The assessment concluded that a 10.7 metre tunnel would be lower project cost, and would significantly reduce the extent of cut-and-cover construction as the crossovers and tail track could be constructed within the tunnel.
Given these benefits–reduction in cut-and-cover construction impacts and reduced capital costs–the 10.7 metre diameter tunnel is proposed for this Project.
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Sakraycore
Active Member
Anything wrong with platforms on the sides?
amnesiajune
Senior Member
It's messy for turning trains around, since you have to completely stop using one platform altogether (like the TTC does at Sheppard-Yonge, although it wasn't intentional there) or build a turnaround past the station so that one platform is used to drop off passengers and the other is used to pick them up (cities like Paris and Montreal do this at some terminals).
It's not really hard to move tracks to the sides when they have to use cut-and-cover to build the station in any case. The drawbacks aren't likely to be worth the tiny cost savings, and the TTC has already done this at Union, Eglinton, Islington, and St. George.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
I remember when the (Line 2) Bloor-Danforth opened with terminals at Keele and Woodbine Stations. Having to hope the signage is correct and deciding which platform will have a train ready to depart was a guessing game.
Then, of course, maybe they're hinting that Scarborough Centre Station will be only a temporary terminal because of a future extension. Nah!
Hopefully, they will use the tail track at Scarborough Centre Station to turn the trains around, like they do elsewhere in the world. Hint, Montréal.
Then, of course, maybe they're hinting that Scarborough Centre Station will be only a temporary terminal because of a future extension. Nah!
Hopefully, they will use the tail track at Scarborough Centre Station to turn the trains around, like they do elsewhere in the world. Hint, Montréal.
Sakraycore
Active Member
Honestly I don't think STC will be the terminal station forever. It will probably be the terminal station for awhile I guess..maybe 5-10 years.