Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[BurlOak]

All of that is correct, but we shouldn't forget that the Ford SRT/ECLRT solution would cause its own problems / bottlenecks on the Yonge line and on the eastbound Eglinton.

The problems with the Ford SRT/ECLRT would be easily solved by the most urgent transit need - a DRL to at least Eglinton.

 

[nfitz]

Fair enough. I am a bit uneasy with the idea that adding 1.7 km from STC to Sheppard, and a station at Lawrence East, hikes the project cost from $3.4 B (or even less) to $4.7 B. I wouldn't think it should be that expensive.

I do agree the Scarborough costs seem a bit high; they keep saying it's because it's so deep, but I'm not completely sold that it needs to be that deep - but I haven't looked at the geology.

I'm just going back to the city report to confirm. Sorry, that's $4.61 billion, not $4.7. But also $3.4 billion is the revised estimate from March 2017 isn't it? Back when the $4.61 billion cost came out in June 2016, the 1-station express subway was still costed at $3.16 billion. See the "Developing Toronto's Transit Network Plan to 2031" from the June 2016 council meeting - http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2016/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-94597.pdf

 

[BurlOak]

Since "Scarborough deserves a subway" and deserve a "transfer-free" solution, would a SLRT that goes along the "approved corridor" but continues down Kennedy to Kingston and goes towards downtown and connects to the Waterfront LRT work? Of course, this line would be grade separated (elevated) along these corridors. This is just a scenario I would like opinion on. This allows a "transfer-free" ride downtown and has the speed of a subway. I'm not proposing this to replace the SSE or EELRT in any way in the current "approved plan", just a "what if" it was proposed earlier.

Farther to this.

Currently, STC to downtown (say financial):
SRT - 4 stops (maybe 3 with the transfer LRT)
Transfer
B-D - 13 stops
Transfer
YUS - 5 stops.
Total = 22 stops and 2 transfers.

This Scarborough Relief Line (SRL) (with the Downtown Relief Line, and the North York Relief Line, someone had to propose this):
SRL - 16 stops, ZERO transfers.

Scarborough to Don River = 25 km @$100M/km (elevated) = $2.5B. 19 stations @$75M/station = $1.4B: SUB TOTAL = $3.9B
Don River to Bathhurst = 4.5 km @$200M/km (cut-and-cover) = $0.9B. 6 stations @$150M/station = $0.9B: SUB TOTAL = $1.8B
Bathurst to Exhibition = 3.5 km @$100M/km (elevated) = $0.4B. 3 stations @$100M/station = $0.3B: SUB TOTAL = $0.7B

TOTAL: 33km, 28 stations (interchanges with B-D, DRL, Y and U), $6.5B.
That's a bit more than the ~$4B (although maybe more) for the SSE. Throw the Sheppard money and the SmartTrack East money in the pot and you've got this built.

 

[Sakraycore]

that mega relief line looks beautiful. I really like how that one looks.

BTW, the $5 billion doesn't come from me, but I started using that figure because that number does feel like what the SSE will cost at the end, considering the early stage in planning and accounting for inflation etc.

 

[OneCity]

that mega relief line looks beautiful. I really like how that one looks.

BTW, the $5 billion doesn't come from me, but I started using that figure because that number does feel like what the SSE will cost at the end, considering the early stage in planning and accounting for inflation etc.

Just make sure to add the "feels like" tax to all other the projects. The latest jump was mainly due to the Triton bus terminal and not the subway itself. As long as no one delays the start date drastically inflation wont be an issue but certainly price should creep up similar to every other project. I would argue this number could be more accurate than most other projects due to the unprecedented scrutiny

 

[M II A II R II K]

Perhaps that SRL could go to the beach it will work wonders when the fireworks end.

And also have it annex the Scarborough stretch of Line 2 for itself.

 

[OneCity]

Perhaps that SRL could go to the beach it will work wonders when the fireworks end.

And also have it annex the Scarborough stretch of Line 2 for itself.

Beach residents might oppose Scarborough gaining better access to their golden neighbourhood.

 

[dowlingm]

Farther to this.

Currently, STC to downtown (say financial):
SRT - 4 stops (maybe 3 with the transfer LRT)
Transfer
B-D - 13 stops
Transfer
YUS - 5 stops.
Total = 22 stops and 2 transfers.

This Scarborough Relief Line (SRL) (with the Downtown Relief Line, and the North York Relief Line, someone had to propose this):
SRL - 16 stops, ZERO transfers.

Scarborough to Don River = 25 km @$100M/km (elevated)

Gonna stop you there. Why should a "non-stop" Scarborough transit line be achieved by ramming an elevated through areas with no ROW wide enough to accommodate them without significant impact, while a heavy rail line parallels virtually the entire alignment as drawn? How does proposing something this toxic help the discussion?

 

[BurlOak]

It likely serves the discussion better than proposing to revert to the transfer LRT plan.

The other option is to make your way to Don Valley first. This frees up the GO corridor for RER. Both relieve the Y-B interchange more than the DRL.

 

[BurlOak]

Scarborough residents, community groups press province to consider an alternative to subway

An article to look at connected alternatives to the 1 stop subway . . . . . nope, same old transfer LRT.

 

[kEiThZ]

Jeez. And yet nobody wants to talk about accelerating suburban rail. I hoped Smart Track would do it. But no, we're still here with the subway-LRT debate, a construct that is specific to Toronto because nobody wants to talk about suburban rail inside the 416.

Why can't they sit down with Metrolinx and figure out how to accelerate the GO RER plans for the east end sufficiently to offset the need for the subway? Even with the DRL, we're talking about Scarborough residents riding nearly 20 stops to the core. Nobody else in the developed world would do this.

 

[OneCity]

Scarborough residents, community groups press province to consider an alternative to subway

An article to look at connected alternatives to the 1 stop subway . . . . . nope, same old transfer LRT.

Why do most Scarborough subway related articles from the Star end in a Matlow quote? Then he wants to by a hypocrite and talk about "agendas". Same old peeps, same old rhetoric, same old cheeky headline. This does nothing to help their 1-stop anti subway stance but continues to alienate the greater Scarborough voter against overwhelming support for an non transfer plan.

Good luck taking this "alternative to a subway" plan that has already been considered into another election.

 

[44 North]

It likely serves the discussion better than proposing to revert to the transfer LRT plan.

The other option is to make your way to Don Valley first. This frees up the GO corridor for RER. Both relieve the Y-B interchange more than the DRL.

I don't know about this, or the other one. Going S/W bound why not follow below CPR corridor after passing Ellesmere/Warden, since its ROW alignment is the required direction and it roughly intercepts Lawrence/Vic Pk. After reaching Don Mills it could veer south and a) become the standard RL, or b) the "Surface Subway" alignment Metrolinx proposed (i.e intercepting Broadview on Line 2). I'm not sure what you have there with Castle Frank, but it doesn't seem good. The other map looks like something Gordon Chong talked about in an article once. The Upper Beaches would end up with more subway coverage than most of the core.

 

[Forgotten]

Jeez. And yet nobody wants to talk about accelerating suburban rail. I hoped Smart Track would do it. But no, we're still here with the subway-LRT debate, a construct that is specific to Toronto because nobody wants to talk about suburban rail inside the 416.

Why can't they sit down with Metrolinx and figure out how to accelerate the GO RER plans for the east end sufficiently to offset the need for the subway?

Because Tory is a fraud.

 

[BurlOak]

I don't know about this, or the other one. Going S/W bound why not follow below CPR corridor after passing Ellesmere/Warden, since its ROW alignment is the required direction and it roughly intercepts Lawrence/Vic Pk. After reaching Don Mills it could veer south and a) become the standard RL, or b) the "Surface Subway" alignment Metrolinx proposed (i.e intercepting Broadview on Line 2). I'm not sure what you have there with Castle Frank, but it doesn't seem good. The other map looks like something Gordon Chong talked about in an article once. The Upper Beaches would end up with more subway coverage than most of the core.

The point is that there are several options. The main goal is to take 7,500 people from STC, another 7500 people from Scarborough, pick up another 7500 people along the way, and reduce the need for use of the Yonge line by over 10,000 riders.
Ideally, rail corridors would be left for GO/RER, although this could be elevated above a rail line.
I initially looked at going west on Ellesmere, Lawrence, or Gatineau Hydro corridor to the Don Valley and then south.
This use of Kingston road was suggest by someone else, and possibly due to Kingston Road/Hwy. 2 history, maybe there are less residences to distribute. Anyway, having options means that if NIMBY's act up, the solution is to go with a different route, not to bury the line. Also need stations at about 1km spacing - if a transit line is going past your neighborhood, at least people can have the benefit of a station nearby.