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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

Finch, Sheppard (if no eastern subway extension)
[video=youtube;47eBAxlF5uk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47eBAxlF5uk[/video]
 
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http://www.thestar.com/news/ttc/201...ar_plan_takes_speed_out_of_rapid_transit.html

In the wake of disappointment over the delays of some of the Transit City streetcar lines — Finch and Eglinton and one out to Malvern — proponents have been boosting the impact of the projects, sometimes with claims that are debatable.

Transit City is not a rapid transit plan. It’s an environmentally sensitive plan. There’s nothing rapid about St. Clair or Spadina. They are comfortable. They move on schedule. But they are not fast. And a streetcar line from Highway 27 to Yonge St. won’t be dashing along, either.

The first acknowledgement should be this: A streetcar network is second-best. It is being proposed because we don’t have the money to do better and our political leaders are not bold enough to tax us to generate the funds or innovative enough to seek other funding options with the private sector.

Many citizens are willing to settle for second-best because the ideal seems so impossibly difficult. But show citizens a subway building plan and the mayor can have $100 in annual licence renewal fees. There will be weeping and wailing, but the cause is just.

Yes, the plan should be accompanied by zoning changes that push intensification along the routes — carefully and sensitively, but pushed ahead, and above the howls of those who want to stand still and not accommodate a more densely populated city.

Yes, build it one station a year for 20 or 30 years.
Yes, finish the Sheppard Stub-way, east to the Scarborough Town Centre and west to the Downsview station to complete a loop with the Yonge-University and the Bloor-Danforth lines. That means we’d be able to travel around three-quarters of the city by subway, and jump off on extensions to the outer reaches.
There seems to be a desire for rapid transit along Eglinton, as well. So, go to it. And the so-called Downtown Relief line in the east-midtown may be a good idea as well.

But don’t tell us that residents in northwest Toronto are now taking three buses over two hours to get to work and hold up the proposed Finch streetcar line as a solution. Commuters may save a few minutes, but it won’t take them long to be dissatisfied with the small, incremental improvement.

Councillor Suzan Hall represents the Rexdale area and is a big supporter of Transit City. She insists on calling the Finch line an LRT, even as I insist on calling it a streetcar.

“Lower emissions and speed are the two biggest factors,†she said Monday. Ridership projections for the next 20 years along Finch will exceed bus capacity but fall well short of subways — hence LRT is ideal, she says.
Transit City proponents say subway aficionados are dreaming if they think Toronto can afford subways. On several of the proposed routes there is nowhere near the capacity needed to run a subway, they argue, and they are correct. For those routes, put in dedicated bus lanes and save the added costs of streetcars. Neither is ideal. But if you can’t get the full benefits, go the cost-effective route until you build the capacity. Going to streetcars does not improve your speed, costs more, is more disruptive, takes longer to construct and is not as flexible as dedicated bus lanes.

“If you want to get people out of their cars you have to give them more than a bus; they’ve had that experience,†Councillor Hall says. “In my conversation with people up my way, buses don’t add up.â€
That’s because they’ve been led to believe that they’re getting rapid transit. Imagine the disappointment should they find out otherwise.

This debate, of course, is almost moot now that the province has delayed the Finch line, along with Eglinton and the Malvern project.

If there is an upside to the decision — odious because it short-circuits a process that’s been approved and supported for years by the same provincial government — it gives us another chance to re-examine where our transit plans are headed.

The Toronto Star wrote, not me...
 
That's the same rhetoric (in the toronto star column) that over the past 30 years have gotten us very little, we don't need to continue it.
 
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Ottawa's Western LRT extension (tentatively scheduled to begin construction in 2018) will be open before any Scarborough transit solution to replace the SRT will be.

It looks like this whole thing is going to be settled soon, only to likely be reopened again at the end of next year after the municipal elections.
 
and you trust that the ttc will operate the lines just like Paris is???

this is where my faith waivers...

1-Who cares about the train set or technology, the bottom line is that people were promised Rapid transit and besides the SRT and Eglinton, they are getting an expensive streetcar +.

2-People don't appreciate snobby politicians and know it all experts like councillor Gord Perks who wants to "educate" us because we just don't get it. London DLR and Paris lines 3 to 5 are really rapid, sheppard and Finch, no.

Just stop lying to people and insult their intelligence and tell them the truth. That's all.

3-don't get me started with some of the TTC operators and managers... it only takes 1 nonchalant driver or/and manager to screw up the whole line. I see them everyday on the 512...driving at 20km/h not caring that people are in an hurry... and the bunching...omg

Managers at st.clair west seeing with their own eyes that empty streetcar going west keep arriving every minutes while it's been half an hour that people have been waiting to go to Yonge with a line up that goes all the way to the teller and all they do is stretching, joking and avoiding eye contact with passed off riders...and I'm avoiding supposed to trust the TTC to do better with the LRT?

i live on st.clair by the way

I would have more faith if Metrolinx had contracted someone else to operate the lines.
 
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Finch, Sheppard (if no eastern subway extension)

Take a look at Seattle's LRT. Could use some improvement but the operations are absolutely gorgeous. This is probably the most similar I could find to our own LRT operations. Both have signal priority, ATO, control centre similar to our subway (no way ATO would work without) and signal priority. Major difference is the stop spacing. The surface portions of Eglinton have stops about every 700 meters, which is the same as on the Bloor-Danforth and wider than on the University and Yonge (south of Wellesley) subway. SoundTransit has stops every few kilometers. I presume the situation will be similar on Finch and Sheppard since ML is fully in charge of design on all three lines.

LAs LRT system is also somewhat similar, but they don't have signal priority which makes it a totally different beast.

Can't wait till these lines open.

[video=youtube;w_y_0oosuFs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_y_0oosuFs[/video]

http://youtu.be/fVarqrslOuE



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zozVg-g1TGI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWkN9mZVius

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTE9mDd6ULI

I can't wait to ride these things. 2021 can't come fast enough.
 
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Royson James just lost what little credibility he had left. Despite the fact that the article is like something out of the Sun or Post, he has spent the better part of the last few years chastising Ford for screwing up Transit City. Now he is all subway and BRT?!

He certainly makes some good points (so it is more like a Post article than a Sun one), he ignores the fact that a BRT would likely not have the capacity for these corridors. As I said a few posts back, as is it is like something between a streetcar and an LRT, changes to the operation and design could firmly put it in the LRT category.

Steve Munro should eat this piece up for breakfast.
 
That article is from August 2010, he has since switched his opinion on the matter, presumably after learning what the LRT lines will actually be.
 
Royson James just lost what little credibility he had left. Despite the fact that the article is like something out of the Sun or Post, he has spent the better part of the last few years chastising Ford for screwing up Transit City. Now he is all subway and BRT?!

He certainly makes some good points (so it is more like a Post article than a Sun one), he ignores the fact that a BRT would likely not have the capacity for these corridors. As I said a few posts back, as is it is like something between a streetcar and an LRT, changes to the operation and design could firmly put it in the LRT category.

Steve Munro should eat this piece up for breakfast.

FYI in 2010 Royson James was telling people to vote for Rob Ford. Today he says that electing Rob Ford was a big mistake. Typical flip-flopping lefty.
 
My bad, didn't look at the date. I may have helped open his eyes, since I sent him an email explaining in better detail what Transit City was, and it was around that time he changed his tune.

Not sure if I still have it, since it was from a Rogers account and I am no longer wish them, but when I am in front of a PC I will see if I can find it.
 
FYI in 2010 Royson James was telling people to vote for Rob Ford. Today he says that electing Rob Ford was a big mistake. Typical flip-flopping lefty.
Since when was Royson James a lefty? His and the Toronto Star's endless anti-Miller rhetoric would suggest otherwise.
 

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