casaguy
Senior Member
So what's happening with this make-over? I was hoping I'd be biking stress-free along Queen's Quay this summer but nothing has changed...
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General cycling issues (Is Toronto bike friendly?)
- Thread starter rp07
- Start date
So what's happening with this make-over? I was hoping I'd be biking stress-free along Queen's Quay this summer but nothing has changed...
confusion
Active Member
I have no idea, but it is likely stalled thanks to some numbnut who believes cyclists have no place on the road.
Really I'm replying because I couldn't help but open up the issues from earlier in this thread, even though it is so old.
Amazingly, over the course of just a year with higher gas prices, more environmental awareness, you can see the bike attitude shift.
As discussed earlier, cyclists sometimes can be aggressive on the roads. This is always the main argument car drivers seem to give for not seeing someone. I see these cyclists while I'm out there on my bike, but out of the 50 cyclists I see on my way to work, I usually see only 1 or 2. Pretty low percentage.
Why do these people cycle like this? Well, look at the situation they've been presented with. They are in a "kill or be killed" situation on the road. I'm not surprised many of the offenders are the couriers. They are the ones who are out there on their bikes all day every day.
Instead of complaining about these cyclists, try to understand why they are cycling like that. What has a driver done in the past to prompt them to adopt that behaviour? The roads in Toronto are dangerous, and those aggressive cyclists are not the problem, they are an indication of the problem.
To solve this problem, Toronto needs Bike Lanes. Not here and there, but everywhere. Cars need to know, anywhere they go, that in Toronto they need to watch out for cyclists. You are downtown, it is part of the culture.
Next, Bike Lanes can't be haphazzard implementations. Do not allow onstreet parking next to a Bike Lane (such as Davenport Rd, I've been doored more there than regular streets). Best yet, add a dedicated Bike Lane so cyclists no longer have to fight for their share of the road.
There are thousands upon thousands of cyclists downtown. Most of these cyclists are residents. Most of the motorists are commuting into the downtown core. Are we going to let the suburbanites run us over with their car culture? Or are we going to create a safe, sustainable city, with healthy people promoting the environment.
Really I'm replying because I couldn't help but open up the issues from earlier in this thread, even though it is so old.
Amazingly, over the course of just a year with higher gas prices, more environmental awareness, you can see the bike attitude shift.
As discussed earlier, cyclists sometimes can be aggressive on the roads. This is always the main argument car drivers seem to give for not seeing someone. I see these cyclists while I'm out there on my bike, but out of the 50 cyclists I see on my way to work, I usually see only 1 or 2. Pretty low percentage.
Why do these people cycle like this? Well, look at the situation they've been presented with. They are in a "kill or be killed" situation on the road. I'm not surprised many of the offenders are the couriers. They are the ones who are out there on their bikes all day every day.
Instead of complaining about these cyclists, try to understand why they are cycling like that. What has a driver done in the past to prompt them to adopt that behaviour? The roads in Toronto are dangerous, and those aggressive cyclists are not the problem, they are an indication of the problem.
To solve this problem, Toronto needs Bike Lanes. Not here and there, but everywhere. Cars need to know, anywhere they go, that in Toronto they need to watch out for cyclists. You are downtown, it is part of the culture.
Next, Bike Lanes can't be haphazzard implementations. Do not allow onstreet parking next to a Bike Lane (such as Davenport Rd, I've been doored more there than regular streets). Best yet, add a dedicated Bike Lane so cyclists no longer have to fight for their share of the road.
There are thousands upon thousands of cyclists downtown. Most of these cyclists are residents. Most of the motorists are commuting into the downtown core. Are we going to let the suburbanites run us over with their car culture? Or are we going to create a safe, sustainable city, with healthy people promoting the environment.
Mustapha
Senior Member
Wow, this has been a long thread. Lots of good info and viewpoints.
Without taking sides, one of the posters here mentioned that most cyclists run stop signs. This has been my observation too. I don't have a problem with it; as long as it's done safely (slowly). I do believe the reason cyclists do this is it's an effort to 'get going' again.
Sidewalk bike riding. I do not commute by bike but ride at fast walking speed on my sparsely pedestrianed north Toronto sidewalks for fresh air, taking care not to approach closely from behind, 'slaloming' around pedestrians and observing many courtesies.
Twice this year I have received lectures about this. One from a pedestrian. One driver stopped her car, blocked me from proceeding, and twisted her face into contortions whilst delivering lecture.
Without taking sides, one of the posters here mentioned that most cyclists run stop signs. This has been my observation too. I don't have a problem with it; as long as it's done safely (slowly). I do believe the reason cyclists do this is it's an effort to 'get going' again.
Sidewalk bike riding. I do not commute by bike but ride at fast walking speed on my sparsely pedestrianed north Toronto sidewalks for fresh air, taking care not to approach closely from behind, 'slaloming' around pedestrians and observing many courtesies.
Twice this year I have received lectures about this. One from a pedestrian. One driver stopped her car, blocked me from proceeding, and twisted her face into contortions whilst delivering lecture.
dt_toronto_geek
Superstar
We definitely need more bike lanes but they must be exclusive for cyclists. Dodging vehicles stopped or parked on a bike lane is less safe than not having a lane at all.
Cycling along College Street on Wednesday was a horrific experience. Much like Davenport Road described above, College from about Spadina to Clinton is the same. It's incredibly dangerous with people pulling out into the bike lane without looking or signaling, double parking, opening car doors randomly and yet others blocking the bike lane to back into a parking spot. It doesn't work. An exclusive, one way bike lane on each side of the street with parking closer to the middle of the road and flex poles to prevent vehicles from stopping or parking on them is a safe and fair alternative for cyclists and motorists.
The above two way lane model (Montreal) would never get done here but they sure have the right idea.
Another issue is how bad the conditions of the roads are along the shoulder. Small sinkholes, sunken sewer grates, poor patching and gaps between the asphalt and cement curb can suck you in if your not paying close attention. I sometimes wonder if the City is trying to discourage people from cycling.
I've noticed several times this year that I can't find a ring to lock my bike on in some areas, they are all full. This has happened occasionally in previous years but I've been faced with this dilemma a half dozen times so far this season. Many areas are badly in need of more of these rings or grouped bike posts and the hundreds (thousands?) of broken and missing rings desperately need to be replaced.
* end of rant *
vic
Senior Member
Montreal bike lanes
Sorry...I have to disagree.... those Montreal / Quebec bike lanes are TERRIBLE.
Here are my own reasons why I think they are terrible:
* Poor sight lines at intersections
* Left turns are awkward because you're stuck in this funnel off at the side of the road.
* When they intersect with other similar bike lanes, you have to watch for two-way bike traffic, pedestrians, two-way car traffic...
* People still park in them, or use them for storing crap
* Pedestrians use them as waiting areas when crossing the street
* They tend to accumulate garbage
* You can still get doored while riding in them
* Sometimes difficult to pass other cyclists, or other cyclists pass too closely because there isn't much room
* Physical barriers are yet another thing to crash in to
* Many of those lanes are removed in the winter
Personally, I'd rather have wider curb lanes with no bike lane at all, or a well-designed one-way bike lane on the correct side of the road.
When designing separated bikeways, they should be made to prevent conflicts and confusion, not add to it.
Sorry...I have to disagree.... those Montreal / Quebec bike lanes are TERRIBLE.
Here are my own reasons why I think they are terrible:
* Poor sight lines at intersections
* Left turns are awkward because you're stuck in this funnel off at the side of the road.
* When they intersect with other similar bike lanes, you have to watch for two-way bike traffic, pedestrians, two-way car traffic...
* People still park in them, or use them for storing crap
* Pedestrians use them as waiting areas when crossing the street
* They tend to accumulate garbage
* You can still get doored while riding in them
* Sometimes difficult to pass other cyclists, or other cyclists pass too closely because there isn't much room
* Physical barriers are yet another thing to crash in to
* Many of those lanes are removed in the winter
Personally, I'd rather have wider curb lanes with no bike lane at all, or a well-designed one-way bike lane on the correct side of the road.
When designing separated bikeways, they should be made to prevent conflicts and confusion, not add to it.
TKTKTK
Senior Member
vic
Senior Member
Oh....One thing that I *did* like about the cycling infrastructure in Montreal is some of their on-street bike parking.
In places where there are many cyclists and not so much space to install bike parking on the sidewalk, just take away a couple of automobile spaces, and suddenly there's room to park many more bikes.
In places where there are many cyclists and not so much space to install bike parking on the sidewalk, just take away a couple of automobile spaces, and suddenly there's room to park many more bikes.
Jaguar4u
Active Member
Martin Goodman Trail
Everyone I know uses the Martin Goodman trail along Toronto's waterfront from the Eastern Beaches to the Western Beaches. My favorite area is Ontario Place to Central Harbourfront.
Everyone I know uses the Martin Goodman trail along Toronto's waterfront from the Eastern Beaches to the Western Beaches. My favorite area is Ontario Place to Central Harbourfront.
dt_toronto_geek
Superstar
Ontario Place sucks to cycle through along those dangerous service roads. I remember a proposal to establish a true Martin Goodman Trail connection through Ontario Place, to improve the traffic flow, maximize parking, improve landscaping and enhance the boardwalk & waters edge through there. I believe 2009 was being targeted as a completion date.
Northern Light
Superstar
Cycling Progress
An update on a few cycling projects. First from the latest Cyclometer (official newsletter about cycling from the City of Toronto):
1. New Bicycle Lanes Status Report
The installation of bicycle lanes on Rogers Road has just been completed. These lanes, approved by City Council in the Fall of 2007, extend from Old Weston Road to Oakwood Avenue, a distance of 2.6 kilometres.
The following projects are approved by City Council, awaiting installation (10.2 km):
A. Logan Avenue from Dundas Street East (including contra-flow lane from Gerrard Street East to
B. Simpson Avenue) and Carlaw Avenue from Riverdale Avenue, 0.9 km
C. Yonge Street from Queens Quay to Front Street, 0.6 km
D. Royal York Road from Delroy Drive to Mimico Creek, 1.5 km
E. Stephen Drive from The Queensway to Berry Road, 0.8 km
F. The Pond Road from Sentinel Road to Shoreham Drive, 0.9 km
G. Shaw Street (contra-flow lane) from Barton Avenue to Dupont Street, 0.6 km
H. Shaw Street from Dupont Street to south of Acores Street/Wychrest Avenue, 0.2 km
I. Wellesley Street from Queen's Park Crescent West to Parliament Street, 2.0 km
J. Vaughan Road from St. Clair Avenue West to Winona Drive, 1.6 km
K. Eastern Avenue from Logan Avenue to Leslie Street, 1.1 km
The following projects have been approved by the Public Works and Infrastructure Committee on June
4, and will be considered at the June 23, 24 City Council Meeting (7.6 km):
A. Annette Street from Runnymede Road to Dundas Street West, 1.8 km
B. Dupont Street from Dundas Street West to Lansdowne Avenue, 1.0 km
C. Marlee Avenue from Roselawn Avenue to Dell Park Avenue, 1.4 km
D. Pharmacy Avenue from south of Denton Avenue to south of Alvinston Road, 3.4 km
The following projects will be considered by the Public Works and Infrastructure Committee at its
June 27 meeting (6.8 km):
A. Stanley Avenue (contra-flow lane) from Royal York Road to Superior Avenue, 0.6 km
B. Royal York Road from Cavell Avenue to Manitoba Street, 0.8 km
C. Simcoe Street/Lower Simcoe Street from Queens Quay West to Front Street West, 0.6 km
D. Birchmount Road from Kingston Road to south of St. Clair Avenue East, 2.4 km
E. Conlins Road from Military Trail to Sheppard Avenue East, 2.4 km
In addition I am aware that several other roads, totally almost 20km more in bike lanes will come forward no later than September.
*************
Second, from Waterfront Toronto:
Ontario Place - Martin Goodman Trail improvements expected to begin construction Fall 2008, completion by summer 2009.
The details are here:
http://www.waterfronttoronto.ca/dyn...1b08&second=4637868526923&third=479a3be5b2731
********
Queen's Quay update:
Currently in the formal EA process under a Class C schedule EA.
Expected to report out for approval this year, construction date is not yet determined, but the hoped for completion date is summer 2011. (which means construction no later than spring 2010.)
Project is likely to be in sync with the new Queen's Quay East LRT
An update on a few cycling projects. First from the latest Cyclometer (official newsletter about cycling from the City of Toronto):
1. New Bicycle Lanes Status Report
The installation of bicycle lanes on Rogers Road has just been completed. These lanes, approved by City Council in the Fall of 2007, extend from Old Weston Road to Oakwood Avenue, a distance of 2.6 kilometres.
The following projects are approved by City Council, awaiting installation (10.2 km):
A. Logan Avenue from Dundas Street East (including contra-flow lane from Gerrard Street East to
B. Simpson Avenue) and Carlaw Avenue from Riverdale Avenue, 0.9 km
C. Yonge Street from Queens Quay to Front Street, 0.6 km
D. Royal York Road from Delroy Drive to Mimico Creek, 1.5 km
E. Stephen Drive from The Queensway to Berry Road, 0.8 km
F. The Pond Road from Sentinel Road to Shoreham Drive, 0.9 km
G. Shaw Street (contra-flow lane) from Barton Avenue to Dupont Street, 0.6 km
H. Shaw Street from Dupont Street to south of Acores Street/Wychrest Avenue, 0.2 km
I. Wellesley Street from Queen's Park Crescent West to Parliament Street, 2.0 km
J. Vaughan Road from St. Clair Avenue West to Winona Drive, 1.6 km
K. Eastern Avenue from Logan Avenue to Leslie Street, 1.1 km
The following projects have been approved by the Public Works and Infrastructure Committee on June
4, and will be considered at the June 23, 24 City Council Meeting (7.6 km):
A. Annette Street from Runnymede Road to Dundas Street West, 1.8 km
B. Dupont Street from Dundas Street West to Lansdowne Avenue, 1.0 km
C. Marlee Avenue from Roselawn Avenue to Dell Park Avenue, 1.4 km
D. Pharmacy Avenue from south of Denton Avenue to south of Alvinston Road, 3.4 km
The following projects will be considered by the Public Works and Infrastructure Committee at its
June 27 meeting (6.8 km):
A. Stanley Avenue (contra-flow lane) from Royal York Road to Superior Avenue, 0.6 km
B. Royal York Road from Cavell Avenue to Manitoba Street, 0.8 km
C. Simcoe Street/Lower Simcoe Street from Queens Quay West to Front Street West, 0.6 km
D. Birchmount Road from Kingston Road to south of St. Clair Avenue East, 2.4 km
E. Conlins Road from Military Trail to Sheppard Avenue East, 2.4 km
In addition I am aware that several other roads, totally almost 20km more in bike lanes will come forward no later than September.
*************
Second, from Waterfront Toronto:
Ontario Place - Martin Goodman Trail improvements expected to begin construction Fall 2008, completion by summer 2009.
The details are here:
http://www.waterfronttoronto.ca/dyn...1b08&second=4637868526923&third=479a3be5b2731
********
Queen's Quay update:
Currently in the formal EA process under a Class C schedule EA.
Expected to report out for approval this year, construction date is not yet determined, but the hoped for completion date is summer 2011. (which means construction no later than spring 2010.)
Project is likely to be in sync with the new Queen's Quay East LRT
nambi
New Member
I'm a cyclist who breaks all the rules!
I am a cyclist who runs reds, runs stop signs, drives in between cars, and in the middle of lanes, SOMETIMES!
Let me explain...
I run reds all the time, if I approach an intersection and I am halted by a red light and I look both ways and there are no cars in site, I go right through. Same goes with stop signs and here is why....
I travel about 20 Km to work one way daily on this 20Km stretch I encounter countless stop signs and traffic lights, some in high traffic areas other in areas whereby there is no one in sight. To bring a bicycle up to speed and get momentum uses a lot of energy, and to constantly stop for frivolous stop signs and lights is draining, just as your car uses more fuel during stop and go traffic, same goes for a cyclist. its FAR more tiring to stop and obey all traffic stops than to proceed through.
As for the driving in between cars... with such poor infrastructure and road conditions for cyclists I often feel there is no choice, drivers drive so close to the curb, the dirty zone between the curb and the motorists are so dangerous the the spacious lane between 2 lanes of traffic (when not is motion) gives a cyclist far more space to ride through than the dirt rocky cracked up street beside the curb.
I do follow traffic laws and give drivers the right of way, I piss off very few motorists and don't think I have ever encountered anyone yelling at my due to my cycling, but I do feel that cyclists are being bashed lately for frivolous traffic laws.
If you take the initiative to drive a bicycle and not burn fuel and pollute AND EASE congestion, some leeway on the drivers side should be given.
I am a cyclist who runs reds, runs stop signs, drives in between cars, and in the middle of lanes, SOMETIMES!
Let me explain...
I run reds all the time, if I approach an intersection and I am halted by a red light and I look both ways and there are no cars in site, I go right through. Same goes with stop signs and here is why....
I travel about 20 Km to work one way daily on this 20Km stretch I encounter countless stop signs and traffic lights, some in high traffic areas other in areas whereby there is no one in sight. To bring a bicycle up to speed and get momentum uses a lot of energy, and to constantly stop for frivolous stop signs and lights is draining, just as your car uses more fuel during stop and go traffic, same goes for a cyclist. its FAR more tiring to stop and obey all traffic stops than to proceed through.
As for the driving in between cars... with such poor infrastructure and road conditions for cyclists I often feel there is no choice, drivers drive so close to the curb, the dirty zone between the curb and the motorists are so dangerous the the spacious lane between 2 lanes of traffic (when not is motion) gives a cyclist far more space to ride through than the dirt rocky cracked up street beside the curb.
I do follow traffic laws and give drivers the right of way, I piss off very few motorists and don't think I have ever encountered anyone yelling at my due to my cycling, but I do feel that cyclists are being bashed lately for frivolous traffic laws.
If you take the initiative to drive a bicycle and not burn fuel and pollute AND EASE congestion, some leeway on the drivers side should be given.
dt_toronto_geek
Superstar
Excellent update, thanks! It's disappointing that the Queens Quay project is still 3 years away but at least it's happening.
theowne
Active Member
I'm a cyclist too (well, sometimes) and I don't stop at stop signs unless I see a vehicle or pedestrians there, but if I'm on an empty side street I don't see much point in going through the trouble. I've never run a red light though I suppose if I ever came to a red light and there were no cars or people around I'd probably go through without stopping.
dt_toronto_geek
Superstar
Police ticket thousands in bike blitz
Jun 25, 2008 10:18 AM
Jackson Hayes
STAFF REPORTER
Toronto police handed out nearly 7,000 tickets during a Safe Cycling campaign that wrapped up on Sunday.
The program ran for a week and was intended to educate motorists and cyclists about bike safety and rules of the road.
Police issued 3,691 tickets to motorists for various offences including failing to yield to cyclists.
Another 2,076 tickets were given to cyclists for disobeying traffic signals, and 113 parking tickets were issued for drivers who parked in designated bike lanes.
Jun 25, 2008 10:18 AM
Jackson Hayes
STAFF REPORTER
Toronto police handed out nearly 7,000 tickets during a Safe Cycling campaign that wrapped up on Sunday.
The program ran for a week and was intended to educate motorists and cyclists about bike safety and rules of the road.
Police issued 3,691 tickets to motorists for various offences including failing to yield to cyclists.
Another 2,076 tickets were given to cyclists for disobeying traffic signals, and 113 parking tickets were issued for drivers who parked in designated bike lanes.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Thanks, and to Nambi too, for your honesty. I think your way of riding through the city is by far the most common amongst cyclists. Just watch out for the cops.