Canadian patriotism... Or lack of...

[tkip]

Was listening to the Stafford show this morning and they were talking about this topic and the rather lack of interest among newer canadians to demonstrate pride or even identify being canadian and what exactly it means to be canadian now.

One caller made a important point that I keep experiencing myself at work, among many different groups of people from different cultures. The caller expressed his view and shared a story about how families indoctrinate the younger people to not express pride for Canada over their parent's homeland.

In the caller's case, his friend, born in Portugual, married to a canadian woman and with a young child born here admitted that during sport events he would rather root for Portugual and hoped his son would to. Rooting for Canada would place last on his list.

This is the root cause at the centre of it all. Having lived in Toronto all my life, I've been dealing with this touchy topic for years now.

I myself have experienced on too many occasions, the opinions from various co-workers with mostly european backgrounds, born here in Canada who refuse to call themselves canadians. When I press the issue and ask why, they won't answer or state they're children of immigrant parents and I just don't understand.

You're right. I don't understand.

 

[urbanboom]

This really isn't a Toronto issue. Mods, can we move this?

 

[khris]

This is something I've noticed a lot as well, and it really gets under my skin. If you want to move to Canada, you should call yourself Canadian.
Even kids that were born here will refer to themselves as wherever their parents were from. I find it very insulting to Canada, and Canadians alike.

I think this is what happens when you pride yourself too much on being multicultural.

 

[GraphicMatt]

The multiculturalism-is-the-enemy thing is a big right-wing talking point (also that it causes terrorism somehow) but I don't think that's quite right.

If you look at America, there's a similar thing going on. Older cultures - like Italian, like Irish, like British, like Portugese - stand out amongst people there too. I think it's largely due to the fact that these countries, and thus these cultures, are older. They go back generations and generations. To be a fourth or fifth generation Canadian is not common.

The difference between Canada and America in this respect, then, it's that "American culture" has emerged as a kind of rah-rah militaristic consumerist thing a lot of which has been manufactured and spread through advertising.

There are seeds of the same kind of thing in Canada. The beaver. The moose. Snowshoeing. Eating poutine and beaver tails. Mounties in red coats. But is this something we want to encourage?

I tend to think culturalization and 'patriotism', whatever that is, evolves organicly. Give Canada another 100 years and we'll be better defined. It would also help if we had more iconic leaders.

 

[GraphicMatt]

Also, I tend to think the sports thing is overstated. Look at the support Toronto FC has from our immigrant community. I'd bet if Canada had a national soccer team worth a damn you'd see a lot of support.

 

[gristle]

People who have immigrated typically maintain some sort of connection to the country they came from. It's not unusual or new.

Typically, it's the kids who turn out to be "Canadian" in that regard. They typically associate with the values and culture they grow up in, not the one exclusive to their parents.

 

[bleeepbluuup]

Also, I tend to think the sports thing is overstated. Look at the support Toronto FC has from our immigrant community. I'd bet if Canada had a national soccer team worth a damn you'd see a lot of support.

And if Portugal suddenly had a decent hockey team, I wouldn't think Portuguese-Canadians would be jumping off the Team Canada bandwagon all too fast either. Sports loyalties are funny, emotional, illogical things. If I moved to Sweden, I wouldn't be cheering for the Swedish hockey team if they were playing Canada, no matter how much I loved living there. Gretzky's lived in the States for how long now? Imagine the hysterics this country would throw if he joined Team USA.

 

[afransen]

Yes it's a problem, and it's not just european ethnicities either. Part of it is fueled by the: "Where are from?" "Canada." "No, no, no, where are you really from?" thing. I consider myself solidly Canadian, but I am still ethnically Dutch, and usually that's what people are asking when they ask where you are from.

 

[Urban Shocker]

There are seeds of the same kind of thing in Canada. The beaver. The moose. Snowshoeing. Eating poutine and beaver tails. Mounties in red coats. But is this something we want to encourage?

But aren't those symbols now mostly undermined by their ironic reinterpretation in the public imagination - notwithstanding the Harper government's attempt to recast us as a warrior nation because we're in Afghanistan? It'll be interesting to see how successful they are at recasting us as a monarchy-loving colony in the next few years, though.

 

[jn_12]

I think back to February 24th, 2002 (quite literally one of the few days in my life where I know the exact date and can pinpoint exactly what I was doing) and I have a lot of difficulty believing that people aren't proud to be Canadian. 12.6million people were watching that game, and that doesn't include people watching in bars and restaurants, etc. If we used the system we have for measuring tv audiences today, you'd probably be looking at more than 2/3rds of the country watching the game (even then, I find it hard to believe 10million Canadians weren't watching...). Personally, I don't know anyone who wasn't watching. On that day they showed Yonge St. during the game and there were tumbleweeds. Later, when Canada won, the place was at a standstill. Similarly, I was in St Catharines at the time, and everyone was out with flags, honking their horns and celebrating and it was a phenomenal atmosphere.

Honestly, I see no problem with people being associated with their heritage and thinking of themselves as something other than Canadian. But I think the fact is (and I think the 2002 Gold Medal Hockey game proves this) when it comes down to it, people are proud to say they're Canadian and are willing to show it. They might cheer for Portugal in soccer, but to say they wouldn't be interested in how Canada was doing if we made the World Cup (2014 isn't too far away!) is just some bravado to try and prove a point. I'd bet they'd be as interested as anyone.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

Well, if we compare patriotism in the US and Canada, that is a huge difference, really. Everyone seems to be such a "proud American", but with Canada, this just doesn't exist.

I'd disagree with the second part of your statement however your first and second sentence slightly contradict each other. I've seen a swell of Canadian patriotism since the last several years of Bush's reign. Our level of patriotism does not compare with that of Americans to be sure, but I have definitely seen and felt a change towards the attitude of Canadians and pride for the country in which we live. I also feel prouder than ever to be a Canadian.

 

[Dugmor]

I think back to February 24th, 2002 (quite literally one of the few days in my life where I know the exact date and can pinpoint exactly what I was doing) and I have a lot of difficulty believing that people aren't proud to be Canadian. 12.6million people were watching that game, and that doesn't include people watching in bars and restaurants, etc. If we used the system we have for measuring tv audiences today, you'd probably be looking at more than 2/3rds of the country watching the game (even then, I find it hard to believe 10million Canadians weren't watching...). Personally, I don't know anyone who wasn't watching. On that day they showed Yonge St. during the game and there were tumbleweeds. Later, when Canada won, the place was at a standstill. Similarly, I was in St Catharines at the time, and everyone was out with flags, honking their horns and celebrating and it was a phenomenal atmosphere.

Honestly, I see no problem with people being associated with their heritage and thinking of themselves as something other than Canadian. But I think the fact is (and I think the 2002 Gold Medal Hockey game proves this) when it comes down to it, people are proud to say they're Canadian and are willing to show it. They might cheer for Portugal in soccer, but to say they wouldn't be interested in how Canada was doing if we made the World Cup (2014 isn't too far away!) is just some bravado to try and prove a point. I'd bet they'd be as interested as anyone.

Like Canada has a chance of making it to the World Cup. Besides, Italian and Portuguese Canadians would be cheering for their motherland over Canada.

 

[Hairball]

Just thought I'd make a post here after registering again.

In a way this is kind of concerning because we have all these people here that don't always appreciate this country.

I was born in Canada, and my parents were immigrants born in Hong Kong. We speak Cantonese at home, but we're kind of an anomaly in that we actively follow things happening in the Canadian news, and we watch Canadian TV. My sister and I definitely identify as Canadian much more, though obviously we can't deny our Chinese roots because of race - and we do appreciate Chinese culture as well.

I find a lot of Chinese immigrants, they seem to only watch the Chinese channel and seem indifferent or don't even like it here and complain. It makes you wonder why they stay around and don't leave.

 

[doady]

This is something I've noticed a lot as well, and it really gets under my skin. If you want to move to Canada, you should call yourself Canadian.
Even kids that were born here will refer to themselves as wherever their parents were from. I find it very insulting to Canada, and Canadians alike.

So I move to America, I should instantly call myself American?

I believe that people can identify themselves as whatever they wish. They don't need your labels. I don't need your labels. I don't subscribe to your idea of what it means to be "Canadian" and neither should anyone else. The labels themselves can mean different things to different people. Don't be so pompous as to believe that that you speak for "Canadians." You only speak for yourself. It is your generalization of Canadians and what is "insulting to Canadians" that is truly insulting to me, as someone who was born in Canada.

I think it is pride and patriotism that leads to genocide, such as the 60,000 aboriginal children that died in residential school system because the government wanted them to be more "Canadian," because they wanted to promote "Canadian" culture.

 

[junctionist]

One might complain about some immigrants who aren't patriotic, but the fact is that often native Canadians don't feel very nationalistic either. A lot of celebrated Canadians like Wayne Gretzky and Neil Young don't live in Canada. We watch American movies, we speak English, and there's not a lot of Canadian dishes. Our cities don't receive massive handouts for beautification to reflect pride in living in Canada and the street names are often forgotten remnants of the colonial era rather than of people of national significance.