BRT vs. LRT

[Rainforest]

Ideally, Hamilton would actual justify a proper metro system and not a street running LRT.

If a metro system was offered, then why not? Lately, transit projects have been funded by government deficits, with no immediate cost to the municipality.

However, a metro would cost 3x or 4x the LRT for the same length, and the government wouldn't go for that, not wishing to prompt the metro demands from several other medium-sized municipalities. Even with deficit financing in place, the government's funding capacity isn't unlimited.

When the LRT is offered and a metro isn't, it would be unreasonable to reject the LRT and possibly not get anything at all for a long time.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Presuming the government did an Ontario line type “creative” project at a cost of about $500 million a kilometre, and presuming they cut some costs as they could build it as a light metro with smaller stations (think more along the likes of the Canada Line), you could probably replace the LRT with a subway for about $5-6 billion, but that would require some elevated portions on the ends of the line towards McMaster and Eastgate. So a ridiculous investment for a midsized city but more like 1.5-2x the cost of the LRT.

the travel time for a metro line end to end would be about 23 minutes instead of the 30 minutes proposed for the LRT.

 

[dad pad]

Ideally, Hamilton would actual justify a proper metro system and not a street running LRT.

I reject the premise that this is somehow the 'ideal' situation.

 

[afransen]

Hamilton LRT is bandied about at $3.4B for 17km, or $200M per km. I kind doubt a mostly elevated light metro would cost more than $300m/km. It would be more supportive of Hamilton becoming a larger city. This is what Ottawa should have done, and they are the only city larger than Hamilton without a metro system (other than the abomination they ended up with).

 

[innsertnamehere]

Ottawa absolutely is a metro system, just low floor. Functionally it’s the same.

 

[dad pad]

Hamilton LRT is bandied about at $3.4B for 17km, or $200M per km. I kind doubt a mostly elevated light metro would cost more than $300m/km. It would be more supportive of Hamilton becoming a larger city. This is what Ottawa should have done, and they are the only city larger than Hamilton without a metro system (other than the abomination they ended up with).

This is from The North American Light Rail Experience: Insights for Hamilton

While traffic congestion helps to drive the case for LRT elsewhere, a comparative lack of congestion in Hamilton offers less support to the local case for LRT. One concern for B-Line LRT and the attraction of new riders is that movements along the corridor are fairly efficient for automobile commuters.Meanwhile, parking in the downtown core is cheap and abundant. The system of one-way streets along the prospective corridor, while good for auto commuting, is not ideal for LRT or for encouraging TOD. In contrast, to support their LRT system, policies in Calgary have made it more challenging to commute downtown by car.

There is no issue of congestion in Hamilton, a low density mid-tier Canadian city, so why would a so-called 'proper metro' be the ideal solution? The LRT should be seen, in my opinion, as part of a more complete city planning exercise to create a corridor in order to, as I wrote earlier, spur development. I also reject the idea that Ottawa Line 1 is an 'abomination' (as well as your estimate for a fully elevated light metro based on conjecture for that matter.)

 

[afransen]

There is no issue of congestion in Hamilton, a low density mid-tier Canadian city, so why would a so-called 'proper metro' be the ideal solution? The LRT should be seen, in my opinion, as part of a more complete city planning exercise to create a corridor in order to, as I wrote earlier, spur development. I also reject the idea that Ottawa Line 1 is an 'abomination' (as well as your estimate for a fully elevated light metro based on conjecture for that matter.)

I mean "eventually". BRT in the mean time could get the job done, at lower cost. I'd rather see Hamilton blanketed in BRT than 1 LRT line. If capacity ever becomes an issue, upgrade to light metro.

 

[TRONto]

On the eBus project, vehicle reliability is cited as a key issue:

Vehicle Reliability and Fleet Availability: Only one (New Flyer Industries) of three vendors for e-Buses are meeting availability and reliability targets. Action Plan: The TTC is working with all vendors on a daily basis to improve both vehicle availability and reliability to address these issues through root cause analysis, vehicle modifications and improvements for the supply chain.

That's from Steve Munro's site. Most electric buses are not meeting requirements yet.

 

[ShonTron]

It was noted earlier that they were not sure if double-articulated buses were legal in Canada and I have no idea. That however would not be a problem. Remember that EMU & DMU trains are also illegal but it didn't stop Ottawa nor GO. It just means they get a waiver and DA buses could do the same.

It just seems to me with busses going green and hence being much quieter and cheaper to run and higher capacity, standard low floor, and their flexibility gives them the heads up on so many LRT lines being built. This is especially true on routes like Finch where these LRT are nothing more than glorified streetcars. By going BRT you can build 3X as much rapid transit for the same price.

I often think many of these LRt projects are being built for this stupid "look Mom I have LRT too" mentality rather than based upon return for the dollar and transit service. Of course politicians line up for LRT because they have what many BRT systems lack due to being able to be phased in...………..a nice juicy ribbon cutting ceremony.

EMUs and DMUs are not “illegal.”

The RDCs - in Canada since the 1950s and used by CN, CP, BC Rail, and later VIA certainly qualify as DMUs. They run on tracks with heavy freight trains.

EMUs operated on a heavy rail corridor in Canada – the CN/AMT Deux-Montages Line – from 1995 to 2020.

The Ottawa O-Train Trillium Line had a special accommodation due to its light rail nature, with a form of positive train control (Indusi) and a requirement not to share with freight trains during operating hours, which at the beginning, still operated on part of that route sporadically.

Compliant DMUs are used on UP Express.