Baby, we got a bubble!?

[Admiral Beez]

basically no part of Southern Ontario is affordable anymore.

IDK how you can make this claim. On Realtor.ca there are over twelve hundred SFH in southern Ontario at under $450k. Make the max $600k there are over five thousand SFH in Southern ON. For any couple making a combined $70-$100k a year, $450k to $600k is reasonably affordable.

Life in a small(er) town isn’t for everyone. And it isn’t just about housing..

You don't have to restrict yourself to small towns. Here's London, ON. There are over 140 listings for SFH for under $550k and over 1,100 jobs in London on Indeed paying over $70k and almost 500 jobs paying over $90k. A friend of mine worked at UofT and recently moved to a new role at the University of Windsor. She sold her downtown Toronto condo and bought a nice house for under $400k, of which there are 145 SFH to choose from today. She a professional in university administration and would not agree that when she left Toronto for Windsor that she traded a career for a job.

There are affordable homes and good paying jobs all across this province and country. If I was a young adult seeing this wide expanse of opportunities, there's no way I'd settle for a reality where I will never own a home beyond a small condo, or if I do I'll never pay it off. Of course as a parent, I'd like my young adult children to remain nearby, if only for my self-serving wish to be near to family as I grow old and feeble, and possible grandchildren. But that thinking didn't stop our great-grandparents from moving from overseas to begin new lives in Canada, often to never see their relatives again. Compared to what our ancestors had to give up, asking me to take a train, for example to Windsor to visit the grandkids is hardly an ordeal.

 

[PinkLucy]

London is nice. Thanks but no thanks to Windsor; my kid lives down that way, and every time I visit I'm glad I don't live there. His job involves international travel; his spouse has a good paying job in a hospital but knows their career options are limited because they choose not to live in the GTA. So yes the $$ is there but career advancement only goes so far. It's all personal choices. My other kid's spouse has some significant career aspirations and is going gangbusters towards meeting those, but it relies on availability downtown, even post-covid. That's important to them, and they love their Beach lifestyle even with the small house and accompanying mortgage (my parents grew up in the Beach, they are likely rolling in their graves seeing it now). People need to be happy and make the decisions that work for them. It's not as cut and dried as I can get a house here for this price and there are jobs on Indeed. Life is about tradeoffs -- for some, lifestyle is more important than housing, for others the 4 bedroom 3 bath house is the key driver. I made a decision that I lived with for 30 years when I was a young adult, but I would make a different decision today because of what I gave up to have that large house.

 

[Admiral Beez]

It's not as cut and dried as I can get a house here for this price and there are jobs on Indeed. Life is about tradeoffs -- for some, lifestyle is more important than housing, for others the 4 bedroom 3 bath house is the key driver.

I understand your pov. In 2004 I moved to Fredericton, NB for more money in a good job and a very affordable housing. By 2007 we were feeling isolated and itching for Toronto and urban living and came back. But I am very glad we made the decision to live and work outside of the GTA. That said, had we not kept the house in Toronto as a rental, we'd likely not have been able to return.

One thing I notice when I travel to Europe is that small towns have a different feel. I wonder if it's because people with education, money and class can easily commute from small towns to the city. My cousin in the UK lives in a beautiful small town near Colchester and takes the train to his corporate job in London along with near a million other daily British rail users. While in Canada, our small towns seem more fall down, clapboard and white trash.

Thanks but no thanks to Windsor;

Top of the list! lol

Top 10 Worst Places to Live in Ontario: Cities to Consider Avoiding

Ontario, the most populous province in Canada, is home to vibrant cities like Toronto and Ottawa, as well as picturesque small towns and rural areas. While many locations offer excellent living conditions, some areas in the province may not be the best choice for residents seeking a high quality...

www.vaughantoday.ca

 

[DirectionNorth]

IDK how you can make this claim. On Realtor.ca there are over twelve hundred SFH in southern Ontario at under $450k. Make the max $600k there are over five thousand SFH in Southern ON. For any couple making a combined $70-$100k a year, $450k to $600k is reasonably affordable.

All you need to do to live in Southern Ontario is make above the median household income, which the CMHC reported as $65,000 after taxes. That's not a very compelling vision.

You don't have to restrict yourself to small towns. Here's London, ON. There are over 140 listings for SFH for under $550k and over 1,100 jobs in London on Indeed paying over $70k and almost 500 jobs paying over $90k. A friend of mine worked at UofT and recently moved to a new role at the University of Windsor. She sold her downtown Toronto condo and bought a nice house for under $400k, of which there are 145 SFH to choose from today. She a professional in university administration and would not agree that when she left Toronto for Windsor that she traded a career for a job.

Or we could start taking steps provide affordable housing in our largest cities and job markets.

Crazy idea, I know.

Oh, and speaking of London, here's their housing market stats from the CREA. I've also included Windsor.

There are affordable homes and good paying jobs all across this province and country. If I was a young adult seeing this wide expanse of opportunities, there's no way I'd settle for a reality where I will never own a home beyond a small condo, or if I do I'll never pay it off. Of course as a parent, I'd like my young adult children to remain nearby, if only for my self-serving wish to be near to family as I grow old and feeble, and possible grandchildren. But that thinking didn't stop our great-grandparents from moving from overseas to begin new lives in Canada, often to never see their relatives again. Compared to what our ancestors had to give up, asking me to take a train, for example to Windsor to visit the grandkids is hardly an ordeal.

"Other people sacrificed more" isn't a very compelling argument for not-solving a very solvable problem with our society. That our collective minds cannot even imagine affordable housing in the GTHA is a sign of serious societal stagnation in this area.

 

[T3G]

As someone who is not a millionaire, the fact that the best solution we can come up with to the housing crisis is that I and people like me should **** off and disappear to non places like Fake London, out of sight of the rich parasites who get to live in the big cities with economic opportunities, arts and culture, vibrancy, and infrastructure, makes me despair.

It's all well and good to say that there are good paying jobs and cheaper homes out there, but unless you're a misanthrope that hates the sun, chances are you will sink into despair and depression living in such a place. It is no place, at any rate, for anyone under the age of 40. All because we don't want to challenge the idea that big global cities should be accessible to everyone.

 

[PinkLucy]

Top of the list! lol

Top 10 Worst Places to Live in Ontario: Cities to Consider Avoiding

Ontario, the most populous province in Canada, is home to vibrant cities like Toronto and Ottawa, as well as picturesque small towns and rural areas. While many locations offer excellent living conditions, some areas in the province may not be the best choice for residents seeking a high quality...

www.vaughantoday.ca

I've lived in both Sudbury and North Bay (eons ago) and spent far too much time in Timmins, so I tend to agree with that list for the most part. Hamilton has some very cool and vibrant areas -- I've been discovering parts of it recently, and it's growing on me. Not enough to move there though.

 

[lenaitch]

We all have our own perspectives and backgrounds, and end up with a life path that we either enjoy or have made peace with. It is clear that the GTA and other areas have a housing problem, and that work needs to be done, but I'm not sure turning it into a battle of the haves vs. have-nots is helpful.

My path had me leave the GTA at a young age. I had an interesting career with good income living in smaller communities. That suited me; I care not for arts and culture or urban vibrancy; but that's me.

Every community has pros and cons. If I am interpreting correctly, all people like the Admiral are saying is, if it is to your advantage in terms of lifestyle, employment, income, etc. a world outside of the GTA does exist that you would be ill-advised to ignore if the alternative negatively impacts on your life. Crusade for better, but life may be passing you by waiting for 'better'. Whether you, as an individual, think that is settling for something less or giving up too much is a personal assessment.

I've lived in both Sudbury and North Bay (eons ago) and spent far too much time in Timmins, so I tend to agree with that list for the most part. Hamilton has some very cool and vibrant areas -- I've been discovering parts of it recently, and it's growing on me. Not enough to move there though.

As you well know, the northern Ontario economy is resource-based, which comes with varying degrees of boom-and-bust. It also tends to be more blue collar, where the idea of a weekend away is closer to towing the RV for an hour and go fishing than off to a resort and wine tasting. Having said that, the last time I was in Timmins, admittedly a few years ago, I saw far more fancy, high-end Euro sportscars than I was expecting.

I sometimes wonder who writes these things. I would much rather put up with a "harsh" northern winter than the damp goo that Toronto gets (or, for that matter, Ottawa; probably the dampest winter weather I have ever experienced). Yes, the crime rates are higher - the cities are social magnets for their surrounding areas much like Toronto. Most have only one, relatively compact downtown which have been hollowed out by big box stores on the outskirts. Improving downtown areas in most communities is a work in progress. Since a lot of the perpetrators and victims are indigent, they likely don't get captured by the census roles and impact the crime rate calculations (although that might also be an issue in many areas).

On that note, according to StatsCan, Windsor's Crime Severity Index is lower than Toronto's, but I agree - not anywhere on my list of places to live.

 

[rdaner]

Stats for September are out and they are good.

The housing starts increased for the second consecutive month

A snapshot of Canada`s housing starts data for July 2023.

www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca

 

[Admiral Beez]

As someone who is not a millionaire, that I and people like me should **** off and disappear out of sight of the rich parasites who get to live in the big cities with economic opportunities, arts and culture, vibrancy, and infrastructure, makes me despair.

Doesn't that describe most of the big cities we love, like London, Manhattan NY, Paris, Tokyo, Singapore, etc?

 

[T3G]

It does, and I find it absolutely appalling.

 

[Admiral Beez]

It does, and I find it absolutely appalling.

A funny thing though, you mention how folks who own homes in the 416 experience: economic opportunities, arts and culture, vibrancy, and infrastructure. I live in downtown east and never really had interest in culture or arts, we rarely eat out except for brunch at the local greasy spoon. As for economic opportunities, all my jobs have been in the suburbs, requiring a long commute or home office. As for infrastructure, I don’t use much transit, but I do need roads, sewers and utilities to be working. I expect many parents of school aged kids who own downtown have similar experiences, though likely more TTC users than myself. We’re not all Toronto Life reading foodies seeking the latest gastropub and going to live music/theatre and festivals.

 

[T3G]

 

[Jonny5]

Relevant

Ontario man on the hook for almost $7,000 after car repossessed for missing loan payments

An Ontario man said he was shocked when his car went missing and later learned it was repossessed after he missed auto loan fees that have mounted to almost $7,000.

www.cp24.com

“As soon as I went to the car to go to the gym, I saw my car was gone," said Toronto resident Harlie Marqueses.
Marqueses said he still owes $42,000 on a bank car loan for his 2019 IS 300 Lexus Sedan, but last year he got a flat tire and when he couldn’t afford a replacement, he took out a car repair loan.
Marqueses took out the loan with Wippy, a company that works with auto shops providing loans for car repairs. Marqueses has an auto repair loan for $2,892, but after missing two payments his car was repossessed a week ago.

I can't help but see there is a small but blabbermouthy part of the affordability "crisis" in people with no life skills blowing enormous sums of money they don't have because they are desperate to live instagrammable lives, and the media is happy to eat that up, because that also describes most members of what's left of the media. This guy probably made sure to tell everyone he met not only that he had a Lexus but that he had "a $50,000 Lexus." Yet he got a flat tire and couldn't afford a replacement? And somehow got a $3,000 loan to pay to replace a flat tire?

 

[afransen]

Relevant

Ontario man on the hook for almost $7,000 after car repossessed for missing loan payments

An Ontario man said he was shocked when his car went missing and later learned it was repossessed after he missed auto loan fees that have mounted to almost $7,000.

www.cp24.com

I can't help but see there is a small but blabbermouthy part of the affordability "crisis" in people with no life skills blowing enormous sums of money they don't have because they are desperate to live instagrammable lives, and the media is happy to eat that up, because that also describes most members of what's left of the media. This guy probably made sure to tell everyone he met not only that he had a Lexus but that he had "a $50,000 Lexus." Yet he got a flat tire and couldn't afford a replacement? And somehow got a $3,000 loan to pay to replace a flat tire?

A restaurant worker owning a luxury sedan? Let me guess, he also lives with mom and is complaining about he'll never own a home.

I earn a decent income (I don't think too many restaurant workers would be equivalent), and am not going to buy a luxury sedan on payments. My 13 year old car just got totaled in a minor collision, and I'm going to replace it for half what that IS goes for, paying cash.

 

[lenaitch]

Relevant

Ontario man on the hook for almost $7,000 after car repossessed for missing loan payments

An Ontario man said he was shocked when his car went missing and later learned it was repossessed after he missed auto loan fees that have mounted to almost $7,000.

www.cp24.com

I can't help but see there is a small but blabbermouthy part of the affordability "crisis" in people with no life skills blowing enormous sums of money they don't have because they are desperate to live instagrammable lives, and the media is happy to eat that up, because that also describes most members of what's left of the media. This guy probably made sure to tell everyone he met not only that he had a Lexus but that he had "a $50,000 Lexus." Yet he got a flat tire and couldn't afford a replacement? And somehow got a $3,000 loan to pay to replace a flat tire?

I usually like CTV's consumer segments in terms of highlighting fraud, consumer protection, how to deal with big corporations, etc. but this was off the mark. I don't know if they were intending to use the guy as a warning but it came off as sympathetic to his plight.