An article about poor TTC accessibility also bad journalism

[prometheus the supremo]

Re: An article about poor TTC accessibility also bad journal

greetings,

re: Should disabled riders pay full freight for TTC that's not accessible to wheelchair users?

well, maybe not but for a public transportation system to be truly public , it should be accessible to all of its citizens in the area it serves. disabled people pay taxes, just like anyone else in this city, taxes that fund public transportation and it is unfair to deny disabled people the basic services that are provided to "regular" people. just because a group is a minority, it's not right to ignore (under serve) them. we all know that if toronto would have got the olympics, the syetem would be totally accessible by the time of the event. i guess anything is possible if the world is watching.

accessibility doesn't just make the lives of the disabled easy, it also makes easy the lives of everyone else. you can almost compare it to ergonomics. a disibility can happen to just about anyone, it does not discriminate. you never know
if one day you need to rely on accessibility features. it is a wise investment.

"regular" people don't have to wake up at 7:00am the day before planing to use the TTC (via wheeltrans) and constantly redial a number (hundreds of times which takes an hour sometimes) to get through in order to book a trip that has a half hour waiting window and on top of that, usually shows up late, sometimes up to 45min late. on top of that, the trip time is further obscured due to the pickup and drop off of passengers so there is no telling when you may arrive to your destination. this is a very unpredictable way to travel. if you have to make medical appointments or have for example a physiotherapy appointment to make, if you're late and miss your appointment, you lost your session and you still have to pay for it. due to all this hassle, it would be difficult to near impossible to make two or more round trips a day using wheeltrans.


we are the same nation/province/city that can send money overseas to help those in need but why can't we provide some basic equal rights to our most vunerable citizens?


we are about to spend over a billion dollars for a tunneled subway through a industrial area to a university surrounded by low density housing up to a "city" "above us" but we can't provide equal access to public transportation?


the reason why you don't see many disabled people on accessible routes is because the system has soo many gaps, it might not be practible to use. an accessible route for me is about 2km away and then i still can't take it to where i'm going. it's a shame that there is a bus stop about 200ft away from my home and i can't even use it. maybe one day i'll crawl on with my bare hands to prove a point.

2020 is too far away. hopefully by then, science will render disabled people - able.

Maybe some foreign tourists and new immigrants should be able to ride for free too, because all the signage and announcements on the TTC are in a language they don't understand.

this is not a fair argument. people can learn to speak a language, someone whose legs are paralyzed can't teach his/her legs to walk again.

If Toronto's cabs were mandated to have a % of accessible cars (like in the UK, IIRC), then we could simply buy a bulk contract with the cab firms, and have them shuttle folks. It'll be cheaper than this.

wheeltrans does currently contract work out to accessible taxi's. alot of the time, it's worse service than wheeltrans. there are no background checks done on the drivers of these taxi's and vehicle inspection/safety is not to the same standard of TTC. i have heard stories of people being assaulted (even sexually) by the drivers of these private taxi's.

BTW, i took an accessible taxi once to go about half a KM and it cost $32.

being disabled is very expensive.





P.S, no ttc passenger pays "full freight". the system is subsidized. the system could not survive of fares alone. is it fair for people who don't use public transportation (walk ,drive,cycle) to have their tax dollars go to the fare?

well, this is debateable but they choose not to use the system, it's there fore them if they want it. it's a totally different situation for the disabled.

 

[bizorky]

Re: An article about poor TTC accessibility also bad journal

Going fareless won't make inaccessible subway stations accessible.

 

[prometheus the supremo]

Re: An article about poor TTC accessibility also bad journal

Going fareless won't make inaccessible subway stations accessible.

i didn't say the disabled should ride for free. i'm just saying they should be free to ride the system.

we can find the money to make the system accessible. if we can blow $219,000 to draw a different picture of the trillium for our province, i'm sure we can find a way. if city council can vote its self a raise, we can find a way.

 

[EnviroTO]

Re: An article about poor TTC accessibility also bad journal

I fully agree that more should be done to make the system accessible to everyone. The elevator installation plan should have two accessible ways out of each station so that one elevator out of service doesn't send people way out of their way. It would be nice if the whole system could be made accessible more quickly.

That said... there is wheel-trans for people who need it which provides door-to-door service at regular TTC fares. Why would the handicapped get a discount when the cost of providing the service is so much more? One can complain about how the regular system isn't fully available to handicapped people despite them paying taxes to pay for it but door-to-door service isn't available to able bodied people despite them paying taxes for it either. Yes, wheel-trans trip times are unpredictable but with regular transit busses stopping at almost every street I would surprised if a trip from Scarborough to downtown would actually take longer on wheel-trans. Yes, the advance booking hassle should be addressed but the article doesn't focus on improving wheel-trans for whatever reason but instead focuses on fare breaks. If wheel-trans could be made more acceptable via a quicker booking and routing system (i.e. call 1 hour in advance instead of the day before) and a few more vehicles on the road then that would buy a lot of time in installing elevators at subway stations.

Some stations are going to be really tough to fix (i.e. Yorkdale with something like four or five sets of stairs between the mall and the subway platform) and either they should have installed far more reliable elevators or should have installed dual elevators. More expensive of course but I doubt the TTC would allow a situation where platforms on stations all over the system become inaccessible to able bodied people for days at a time and simply put up signs for alternate routes. The fact that they have published permanently these alternate routes is evidence of how often they expect issues with elevators to occur. They should have ensured redundancy or better service levels in their plans from the start.

I understand the argument that more should be done to make the system more accessible faster but I don't get the fare discussion. The price is right.

 

[wyliepoon]

Re: An article about poor TTC accessibility also bad journal

Welcome, prometheus...

Next time you quote somebody on this forum, make sure you don't quote them out of context. I obviously wasn't serious when I was saying tourists and immigrants should ride the TTC for free.

 

[prometheus the supremo]

Re: An article about poor TTC accessibility also bad journal

hello wyliepoon,

Next time you quote somebody on this forum, make sure you don't quote them out of context. I obviously wasn't serious when I was saying tourists and immigrants should ride the TTC for free.

you may have been joking but there are people who will actually read those comments and think they make perfect sense.

 

[prometheus the supremo]

Re: An article about poor TTC accessibility also bad journal

EnviroTO, alot could be done to make wheeltrans a better service but according to some wheeltrans drivers i've spoken to, the system doesn't really want to bother. if this is true or not, i don't know but it seems like it. it is almost like they want to discourage people from using it since it is a money loser. according to a driver, the ttc never wanted to run wheeltrans. it used to be run by a private company that got government funding but because of corruption (the company was ordering replacement parts, tires, etc. it didn't need with government funds to re-sell the products in the U.S), the government forced the TTC to take over the service.

it really sucks when you can't just get up and go as you want like a regular human being. it is discouraging when you want to go somewhere, you feel isolated and just don't bother to go out unless it is really important because of the hassle. life is hard enough.

there will always be people that must use wheeltrans but there are many who would just like to use the regular TTC just like anyone else.

 

[doady]

Re: An article about poor TTC accessibility also bad journal

well, maybe not but for a public transportation system to be truly public , it should be accessible to all of its citizens in the area it serves. disabled people pay taxes, just like anyone else in this city, taxes that fund public transportation and it is unfair to deny disabled people the basic services that are provided to "regular" people.

The amount that city subsidizes Wheeltrans each year (around $50 million) is far greater what the disabled people can pay for. I do think that the system should be be accessible to everyone, but this is not a good argument.

BTW, I was riding MT route 19 yesterday and the asshole bus driver kept driving away from the bus stops because the people waiting there get to the bus too slowly, and stranded around a dozen people within 15 mintues, including an obviously disabled woman struggling to run to the bus because the bus shelter she was sitting in was not located exactly at the bus stop.

It is good to see that most people in Toronto actually care about accessibility, unlike right-wing Mississauga.

 

[Brighter Hell]

Re: An article about poor TTC accessibility also bad journal

Don't forget that low-floor buses and elevators benefit other people too, like cyclists and parents with baby strollers.

I think who it benefits the most is the elderly who can't walk very well anymore but can still use the regular system. They can board low floor buses and streetcars a lot faster and save everyone time. This will only get more imortant as the baby boomers get older and have more mobility issues.

 

[geekaroo]

Re: An article about poor TTC accessibility also bad journal

I just spent 3 months in a wheelchair due to an injury - don't ask, my dumb. Luckily for me I live downtown, so I was able to take the Yonge bus for work. I was a little disturbed by the lack of elevators in the core, but I dealt with that.

I found, by and large as I looked for routes to take me where I needed to go, that there were viable ways to get around for most of my needs.

While I agree that the TTC could be more accessible, Rome wasn't built in a day and I would assume that like it or not, there would be quite a bit of planning and money invested into putting in accessibility.

One further note. Now that I am on crutches and not so 'visably' disabled, there leaves a lot to be desired by the TTC patrons. I have frequently in the past couple of weeks been obliged to stagger half way through a bus carrying two crutches to find an empty seat, with no offer of assistance from my fellow passengers - on the Yonge bus - designed for the disabled!

Ah well, live and learn.

 

[blixa442]

Re: An article about poor TTC accessibility also bad journal

My dumb?

 

[prometheus the supremo]

Re: An article about poor TTC accessibility also bad journal

The amount that city subsidizes Wheeltrans each year (around $50 million) is far greater what the disabled people can pay for. I do think that the system should be be accessible to everyone, but this is not a good argument

.

i can see the point you're making from a monetary point of view but socially, it feels very unfair to be seperated from everyone else. emotionally, it is extremely frustrating to use and not being able to come and go at the same pace as the walkin' folk leaves you with a feeling of defeat that manifests its self in the form of isolation and restriction in a lifestyle that is already too full of isolation and restriction.

when a regualr TTC user misses the bus or subway train, they simply wait for the next, if a wheeltrans user misses the bus, there is no next bus and if it happens more than 4 times in a month, your service is cutoff for that month.


there are strict rules for regular TTC busses to be on time, i understand if a driver is late more than a few times, they can lose their job. wheeltrans service is usually late and sometimes really late. now i don't want wheeltrans drivers to loose their job for being late but maybe more can be done to achieve correct pickup and drop off times.

an ideal system would be one where you can make a call and have transportation in half hour, which is kinda what you deal with at some bus stops (waiting half hour), but this will never happen because then the service would be "too convienent", more people would use it and it would cost the TTC more money.

we always hear how the system is the best of its kind. that attitude leaves no room for improvement, thinking that you're the best, that is. maybe someone is trying to get across a hidden message. :\