Allowing Prayer sessions during school time

[reidjr2010]

I have no issue with letting muslims pray thats fine i have no issue with that but you offer the same to other groups.

 

[nfitz]

I have no issue with letting muslims pray thats fine i have no issue with that but you offer the same to other groups.

Seems fair. Muslims can use the school to pray during the school day on Fridays. Jews can use the school day on Saturdays. And Christians can use the school to pray during the school day on Sundays.

Wait you say ... there are no school days on Saturdays and Sundays. I guess it's just a huge coincidence that there is no school day on the Jewish and Christian holy day!

 

[Ak2809]

Once you allow religious groups so use publicly owned facilities for prayers you've essentially created government funded places of worship.

 

[reidjr2010]

Its a bit more then that in many schools you can't say chirstmas in some schools chirstmas partys are now called holiday partys so its more inclusive of other religions.This should not be just about the holy day of the week but the over all picture such as chirstmas partys call them by that name don't give it a another name even the lords prayer its not allowed in most schools you want to be fair bring it back in some schools.

 

[Ak2809]

even the lords prayer its not allowed in most schools you want to be fair bring it back in some schools

So we should accommodate christian students by allowing them to recite the Lord's prayer before classes?

 

[jeff316]

Wait you say ... there are no school days on Saturdays and Sundays. I guess it's just a huge coincidence that there is no school day on the Jewish and Christian holy day!

Ding!Ding!Ding!Ding!Ding!Ding!Ding!Ding!Ding!Ding!Ding!Ding!Ding!Ding!Ding!Ding!

When the Mormons set up tyrannical dictatorships around the world based on their religion, and then use that religion as a justification for attacking other Western countries and citizens, THEN I'll agree that the Mormons are worse.

So funny you should mention that, sounds to me like the three Mormon wars - yup, three of them, on US soil no less - the Mormons have been at war with the United States in the past in part to attempt to create a theocratic state and defend their prophecies and values (they used to go into a midwestern town, take it over, expropriate businesses and property, issue fake money, kill dissenters and run the place like a religious theocracy before they'd get booted out by the state militia, only to pull the same thing a few hundred miles westward, wash rinse repeat.) One aspect of their theology holds that US society and institutions will crumble under the weight of their own sin, society will hang by a thread, Mormons will save society and uphold the US constitution, everyone will be so glad that they convert to the one true religion and the Mormons will eventually rule over the US (and the world) as a theocracy.

Not trying to pick on Mormons - they're one of my favs - but hmmmm not so dissimilar eh? Crusaders and Christians come to mind. You should check out some of the other religions too, you'll like what you find.

Once you allow religious groups so use publicly owned facilities for prayers you've essentially created government funded places of worship.

We've been doing that for a long time - it's a long and common history. Lots of public schools serve as religious uses before and after school (and during, as we've seen.) In at least one school in Thornhill that I know of at the end of the day kids can go straight from class to Hebrew/Jewish classes without leaving the school. Churches and associated property pay reduced (or no) property taxes and many of them are built on donated lands so they are also indirectly subsidized by the state and therefore government funded places of worship.

So we should accommodate christian students by allowing them to recite the Lord's prayer before classes?

We already do. Go check out the Christian Fellowship at any given school. In my experience, they congregated separately right after announcements.

 

[Ak2809]

We've been doing that for a long time - it's a long and common history. Lots of public schools serve as religious uses before and after school (and during, as we've seen.) In at least one school in Thornhill that I know of at the end of the day kids can go straight from class to Hebrew/Jewish classes without leaving the school. Churches and associated property pay reduced (or no) property taxes and many of them are built on donated lands so they are also indirectly subsidized by the state and therefore government funded places of worship.

Does this make it right? No, and it should end.

 

[EnviroTO]

Though back then, there weren't any references to God in Oh Canada, like there are now.

Interestingly the original version was neither sexist nor religious as the current anthem is.

 

[GenerationW]

Additional note: we had Oh Canada in the movie theatres as well.

Oh Canada? Oh really???

 

[reidjr2010]

Its a very slippery slope if you accommodate one religion and not offer the same sort of treatment to other religion.

 

[jeff316]

Does this make it right? No, and it should end.

So then why are we only talking about denying Muslims in this thread?

 

[Ak2809]

So then why are we only talking about denying Muslims in this thread?

Because that is the example that has been raised as an issue. These things do tend to fly under the radar until someone complains, and look how long this ran.

I sincerely hope that this goes to the courts and it is affirmed that religion has no place on school grounds. The courts will agree with it as well, because of past precedent.

Also, please don't assume this is an anti-islamic issue because its not, and quite frankly the insinuation is insulting.

 

[nfitz]

I sincerely hope that this goes to the courts and it is affirmed that religion has no place on school grounds. The courts will agree with it as well, because of past precedent.

I'm curious as to what mechanism would bring this to a court. I'm aware of no statute that has been broken. Can you identify one?

 

[reidjr2010]

It was back in 1988 where the ontario courts of appeal said held the rulling say the lords prayer could no longer be spoken on the grounds it discriminated aginst students of other faiths or those who had no religion.Another issue is because girs and boys are segregated that does goes aginst the canadian charter which states everyone much be treated as a equal as with this beeing in a public school this could be a issue.

 

[nfitz]

It was back in 1988 where the ontario courts of appeal said held the rulling say the lords prayer could no longer be spoken on the grounds it discriminated aginst students of other faiths or those who had no religion.

That was in relation to it being part of the curriculum however; something the classroom teacher did for the entire class (at least those who didn't have to be escorted out somewhere so they weren't subjected to it). If a private organization is running a non-mandatory program in separate rooms from classes, I don't see how that court ruling would have any bearing. Nor do I see a statute in question.

Another issue is because girs and boys are segregated that does goes aginst the canadian charter which states everyone much be treated as a equal as with this beeing in a public school this could be a issue.

There's enough outs in the charter for that ... given the freedom of religion, the clause about God being supreme, etc. Surely by that standard, then bathrooms for different sexes also violate the charter.