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2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion

Partially agreed. There's virtually no-one in *Cabinet* that isn't damaged goods. There's lots of talent on the benches though.

You're right on "surprising you". I'm still waiting. Every time I hear him try to form complete sentences, he gets even worse than I thought he was.

The PC's own advisors are wetting themselves over his abject performance in press conferences and interviews. If he keeps this up, even Wynne might have a chance of re-election.

In the event, the OntLibs need a new, fresh, intelligent and well spoken leader, untarnished by the present cabinet, and the election is theirs. The Sun is dissing Wynne, and that's a foregone given. What is interesting is that many columnists even at the Stun and Pest are dissing Brown. He scares a lot of people by his abject ineptitude.

Even these backbenchers who have only been in government since 2014 are still part of a poisonous party who voted in favour of such unpopular things as the sale off of hydro one. When Dalton McGuinty’s unpopularly was sinking fast in 2013, he resigned and when Kathleen Wynne won the leadership, she promised a new era of governance and good policy. As a former Ontario Liberal party supporter, I was very hopeful for her, the party and the province. She not only let me and many others down, she has turned out to be worse than McGuinty and has become possibly the worst premier Ontario has ever seen. None of her Liberal MPPs seem to be any better or hopeful. Heck, I think some of her top cabinet ministers, like Deb Matthews and Eric Hoskins would actually be even worse than her in the leadership role.

Honestly, this party deserves to be knocked down to third party status for a long time so at some point in the future with brand new leadership, new MPPs and having learned from the stupid mistakes of the past, the party can come back strong. As of now, I will vote PC next year because as far as I’m concerned, I didn’t leave the Liberal party, the Liberal party left me.
 
I'd say the chances the Liberals will win in 2018 are very low. Just taking policy aside for a moment, the party has been in power for many years and any government that has been in power for years is fighting against the "winds of change" that voters consistently feel. Voters are looking for change in the province, every recent poll suggests.

Here are some basic points to remember: the Tories were absolutely destroyed in the early 2000's because they were shoving extremist policies onto Ontario. They began the hydro privatization schemes, and Liberals campaigned on change. Tories privatized Hwy 407, leaving it priced out for anyone who isn't fairly well endowed with a higher income. I know on an urban oriented forum like this it is painful to recognize, but many people prefer driving in the GTA and want better options. This is one of the many issues that helped 905 voters realize Tories weren't fighting for them back in the day. Liberals? They've done nothing to change this mistake.

Tories back in the late 90's and early 00's? They were cutting hospitals and nurses. People didn't like it, so they relied on the Liberals for change. Now, Liberals have invested heavily in hospital rebuilding (in terms of physical structures), but they too are now cutting nurse staffing and lots of important things behind the buildings and things that are needed for health delivery.

Do you see a theme here? Liberals are now committing all the same acts that people didn't like the Tories for. Privatization, cuts in important public services, and focused on a very narrow tract of voters.

My observation has nothing to do with who I support for politics, just as a total guess I don't see the Ontario Liberals winning next year. But I also thought Trump had no possibility to be elected south of the border, so we'll see if my projections mean anything.
 
Above: Thanks for that, as I was about to be a little brusque but polite to StevieD.
Even these backbenchers who have only been in government since 2014 are still part of a poisonous party who voted in favour of such unpopular things as the sale off of hydro one.
The history of the Cons and Hydro One has been itemized and linked by myself just within the last few weeks, and I'm sure others have too.

I suggest you read some history before making statements like that and throwing barbs wildly. I'm the first one to tout Wynne stepping down, but it seems the Cons seem to connect with kneejerkers more as time goes on. I see the Trump clouds in the distance, headed this way.

Here's Above's point made well and mine:
Ontario's Liberals are being forced to explain why they want to sell Hydro One after condemning the previous Progressive Conservative government for proposing a similar privatization plan.
The Conservatives dug up a 2002 motion from veteran Liberal Jim Bradley, now the chair of cabinet, that said Hydro One "is best kept in public ownership and public hands."

Bradley cited cabinet confidentiality Tuesday when asked if he had ever spoken against Premier Kathleen Wynne's plans to sell 60 per cent of the giant transmission utility to raise an estimated $9 billion.

Wynne says she would use $4 billion from the sale to help pay for a $130-billion, 10-year infrastructure and public transit program, and $5 billion to pay down hydro debt.

"They were selling 100 per cent with no conditions placed on it at all when those comments were made," Bradley said. "It's pretty sad when they have to go far back in history to deal with those things, but it's all part of politics."

"It is critical that we invest in the roads and the bridges and the other large infrastructure across the province that is needed by communities in order for them to be able to thrive," she told the legislature.

Wynne said unlike the old Tory privatization proposal, the Liberal plan will see taxpayers remain as the largest single shareholder of Hydro One. [...]
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...sale-they-opposed-when-pcs-tried-it-1.3229299

Weasel words, doubtless, and I'm not going to defend her, but to deny the Superior Court Injunctions against the PCs and their political attempts at outright sale render your claims not only biased and misplaced, but completely ambiguous.

Hey, call me an Old Time Conservative, when they led this province with effective, progressive and accountable government. Seems some love to lecture on what the Cons are, and yet can't read history.
 
The thing about Brown is that he's not campaigning like a Harris Con. Likewise, in the last election Hudak sounded utterly childish and insane, running around saying he'd gut the public force and fire a hundred thousand public servants. On the contrary, Brown is running around Ontario telling nurses they need more investments and increased numbers. He's going into communities and speaking to reassure people that public services will be there for them and he'll invest in them. And now he's moderated his social side, because he's been marching in Toronto Pride, he's voted for the islamophobia bill.

In other words, the Progressive side has returned to the PC Party. This will resonate with voters, because Wynne can't call him a right wing anti-government extremist.

In so far as Wynne, she sold off Hydro One for a one time cash injection. Gone are hundreds of millions in regular royalties and revenues to the public purse, which would have been generated as primary owners. The pressure to increase rates for transmission will forever be greater now with private profit minded investors in the mix.

It doesn't matter if hydro rates drop by 50% before the next election, its the unforgivable sin she owns. This wasn't McGuinty, it is her. She did it. She will own it, now.

I just don't see how Wynne can overcome this with a moderate, more progressive Tory running against her.
 
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I sniff a classic closet case.
Well, since so many liked your post, I'll venture out of my (straight) closet for a comment. (I'm usually censured by the Admin for making a statement like Towered, and banned for "making sexist comments". Whatever...

Errr....the kid is 'mighty peculiar'. It's bizarre...even the way he moves and holds himself, let alone his politics/indoctrination. A man he isn't.

There's a real unspoken on the number of individuals like this in ReCon and TrumpCon circles. Harper's cabinet....errr...had a large closet attached. And so does Trump's, and now Brown's too. It goes beyond politics, it's almost into Science Fiction somehow...invasion of the mantra (and pussy) snatchers. And they 'cover their azzes' by pretending to be anti-gay.
 
John Baird and Jason Kenny, for starters.
Thanks for the segue on that, as I'm treading on eggs on this topic to make it very clear: Wynne, for all her faults, is very open and honest about her sexuality, and I have immense respect for that. My few gay friends are that way. Be what you are, and it's not a problem, because you can never be accused of being a hypocrite.

But there's a term for what's happening in a number nations for the closet clingers pointing accusatory fingers at others, as if it somehow validates then expunges their own sense of shortcoming: "Rainbow Hawks". There's actually a lot on-line on this, as it is a rising phenomenon showing in a number of reactionary conservative enclaves internationally, the US Republican Trump wing being a prime case, but far from unique.

From the National Post (again, chosen as it lies to the Right of Centre)
Rise of the rainbow hawks: How Conservatives and Canada's gay-rights activists made common cause
Jonathan Kay | August 23, 2013 | Last Updated: Jan 25 7:46 PM ET
More from Jonathan Kay | @jonkay

Plenty of Westerners have expressed disgust at Russia’s new law criminalizing the “propaganda of non-traditional sexual relations.” But few statesmen have put the issue in terms quite as blunt as has Canadian Foreign Minister John Baird. “This mean-spirited and hateful law will affect all Russians,” he told an interviewer earlier this summer. “It is an incitement to intolerance, which breeds hate. And intolerance and hate breed violence.” Mr. Baird also revealed that Canadian officials have personally pressed the issue with their Russian counterparts on no fewer than eight occasions.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper hasn’t just come around to gay rights: He has made the issue a centrepiece of Canada’s foreign policy. His government has fiercely rebuked draconian anti-gay laws in Africa, to the point of infuriating the social-conservative group REAL Women of Canada, which this month publicly denounced Mr. Baird for using his position “to further his own perspective on homosexuality.” The Conservative government has offered protection to persecuted gays in Iran and worked diplomatic channels to convince Russia to scotch plans to ban foreign adoptions by gay couples.

And in an odd twist, the Tories’ hard-line stance against homophobic governments overseas has boomeranged back to powerfully influence the mainstream conservative view of homosexuality here in Canada — a rare example of a foreign-policy posture setting the agenda on an otherwise purely domestic social issue. In the last two decades, support for gay rights in Canada has advanced, particularly compared to historic fights for minority rights, with breathtaking speed, and much of it happening under a Conservative government.

As a result, the Conservatives of 2013 would surely be unrecognizable to the conservative politicians of the 1990s. The Reform party, where Mr. Harper began his political life, voted against the inclusion of gays and lesbians in the Human Rights Act. Reform founder Preston Manning described homosexuality as “destructive to the individual, and in the long run, society.” Stockwell Day dismissed it as a “lifestyle choice.” In 1999, a Calgary Reform MP told the House of Commons that “[traditional] marriage provides a healthy biological design for procreation. Other types of relationships are technically incomplete.” Even as recently as 2004, less than a decade ago, the preservation of marriage as the union of one man and one woman was a central plank of Stephen Harper’s election platform, and a rallying point for his base.

[...]
But Jaime Watt, a political strategist who helped Mike Harris’ Ontario Progressive Conservatives win two provincial elections, believes there is more to the shift than mere political utilitarianism. The seeds of the Harper government’s current gay-supportive policy, he argues, were planted in 1994, after the failure of Ontario’s Bill 167, which would have granted some of the rights associated with marriage to same-sex couples.

“At the time, there were a bunch of us here in Toronto — strategists, lawyers and other professionals — who wanted equality, and we were tired of leaving the issue to the activist left,” he told me. “We started to convince people that this was an issue of Canadian values, that the lives of gay and lesbian people involve more than just what they do with their genitals — that they go to work, take care of children, that they are sons and daughters who care for aging parents. As strategists, we started doing for our [gay] community what we’d been doing for our clients.”

The second big factor Mr. Watt points to is that, in the 1990s, many older gay men and women started coming out of the closet — which had a strong influence on the attitudes of their straight peers: “If you go through life without knowing anyone who is gay, it’s easy to be homophobic. When it’s a friend or family member, not as much.”
[...continues, well written and detailed, at length...]
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...conservative-party-became-gay-rights-warriors

Here's the point! This is going to blow up on Brown, and if he has any sense of how this is going to affect his chances, and I don't think he has a clue, he'd best get out in front of this. He claimed to have jettisoned the ReCon stance, and yet lo and behold, here he is championing this...err...'not a man'.

You don't even have to view this through gender tinted glasses, it's just weird to most anyone but ReCons. And those most defending Brown? The ones most likely to make gender accusations at Wynne.

I still don't quite know how much weight to give to this, since this 'cohort of ambiguity' is growing. Hopefully it remains a small minority...it's concerning, and disconcerting.

Edit to Add: I originally didn't want to quote this, but I now note it's from a gay publication, so I'll link it:
16 Antigay Leaders Exposed as Gay or Bi
http://www.advocate.com/politics/politicians/2015/05/29/16-antigay-leaders-exposed-gay-or-bi
 
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Hey, call me an Old Time Conservative, when they led this province with effective, progressive and accountable government. Seems some love to lecture on what the Cons are, and yet can't read history.

In today's world conservatives need to root out extremism and define it before they become defined with the extremism. They need to take control of the party and bring it back to accountable, reasonable people who believe in public service. Brown sounds like he's doing that in Ontario. Hudak and Harris almost destroyed conservatism in Ontario.

Conservatism should not be associated with firing a hundred thousand public servants in one ideological move and campaign promise, without even having seen the public chequebook and accounting documents to review. Conservative is not Kevin O'Leary, calling himself progressive just because he's cool with gay marriage, yet has contempt for public service in all other matters. Conservative is not Maxime Bernier. Those are libertarians, there is a difference. Conservative is not libertarian. It is as different as a socialist and a liberal, yet people likewise confuse those terms. I guess since the NDP has tried to become the Liberal party in recent years you can't blame people for being confused. LOL

Historically, you could say a liberal was a public servant who didn't care how much he or she spent on a program, and a conservative was a public servant who wanted to budget and make a plan for it and work within that budget. Sometimes Conservatives would budget liberally (Harper did this during the recession, running deficits with his Action Plans), sometimes Liberals would budget conservatively (Martin certainly did this). The capitalisation of the C and L notwithstanding. No one was discussing destroying public service altogether, and no one was saying a centrally planned economy soviet-style was good. There was reasoned debate and people used to recognize the parties need to respond to the realities of the time they govern within.

Rigid ideology is bad no matter who is in power.

It is time we start recognizing political extremism from all angles. Because if you don't, they start to define your political movement and party.

Reject all extremism is my philosophy. Reasoned political and public service cannot come from extremism.
 
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Another instance of how Quebec was able to leverage its resources (through low electrical prices and targeted support) and how things snowball:

Google Inc announces first Canadian ‘cloud region’ in Montreal, allows sensitive data to stay within borders
http://business.financialpost.com/f...-allows-sensitive-data-to-stay-within-borders

Why Google built its first Canadian cloud computing facility in Montreal

Quebec’s competitive electricity rates and proximity to Montreal’s burgeoning tech scene have made the city a cloud-computing destination

Don’t look now, but Montreal is quickly becoming a cloud computing hotspot. Google has pegged the city to host a new data centre, making it the company’s first “Cloud Region” in Canada.

The move follows a similar announcement by Amazon, which recently opened a cluster of data centres around Montreal. IBM and French cloud computing company OVH have also set up centres in Quebec, as have several Canadian companies including Bell and Cogeco.

Amazon cited Quebec’s lower electricity prices, compared to Ontario, as a major reason for its decision to location in the province.

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/innovation/google-cloud-montreal/

Of note from the Financial Post article:

Google is building its first cloud region in Canada, which it says will allow businesses to keep sensitive data within the country while also speeding up services like machine learning that helps better analyze information.
Now, combine this with the development of the AI scene in Montreal (Microsoft, Concordia, etc.) and you might see a massive competive advantage appearing a la the video game industry back in the 90s. Meanwhile in Ontario...
 
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if the other side (the right) used language like you used, i can only imagine what would be said of them? Guess only the left can say what they want. One reason why over the years I have gone from the left (NDP) to the right
 
I've been complaining about Oosterhoff, who is completely unqualified to lead his riding, but the Liberals also can be willing to send less than ready candidates to Ottawa. This isn't quite as bad as a home schooled social extremist, but... Shouldn't she have at least another decade of experience in the real world before this?

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...o-win-nomination-to-replace-stphane-dion.html

I tend to appreciate more those who work hard and have achievements to get that far up the totem pole rather than an early jump from less qualified to on top.

And another article, did I not say there was a theme this coming year? Yet another role reversal for the Tories and Grits in Ontario from 2003 to 2017:

https://www.thestar.com/news/queens...any-as-300-schools-on-the-chopping-block.html

Now the Liberals are saying schools should be shut as the Conservatives say they should remain open. Oh the irony of it all.
 
Cause and effect:

Toronto distillers worried new tax will put them out of business
For local distillers, a new tax of 61.5 per cent on Ontario-made spirits sold in distilleries could mean the end of days. The tax is bundled into the Liberal Government's Bill 70 budgeting, which would reduce the amount of money independent distillers pay to the LCBO when a bottle of their booze is sold, but increase the tax they have to pay from sales in their own shops.
http://www.blogto.com/eat_drink/201...s-worried-new-tax-will-put-them-out-business/

Toronto's upstart gin and whiskey distillery has shut down
According to a posting on the Toronto Distillery Co.'s website, it was the unfavourable provincial taxes that ultimately did them in. In December, the Ontario government imposed a 61.5% sales tax on distillery retail stores - a tax the owners felt made it hard to turn a profit and fund future growth.

http://www.blogto.com/eat_drink/2017/03/toronto-distillery-closed/

EDIT:And the cherry on top- a rebate program for cideries and distilleries! Again, the Liberals try to fix what they've made worse.

Why Ontario craft distillers are struggling — and what the province can do about it

OPINION: If Queen’s Park really wants independent distillers to thrive, then a small tax subsidy just isn’t going to cut it

http://tvo.org/article/current-affa...ggling--and-what-the-province-can-do-about-it
 
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Another instance of how Quebec was able to leverage its resources (through low electrical prices and targeted support) and how things snowball:

Google Inc announces first Canadian ‘cloud region’ in Montreal, allows sensitive data to stay within borders
http://business.financialpost.com/f...-allows-sensitive-data-to-stay-within-borders

Why Google built its first Canadian cloud computing facility in Montreal

Quebec’s competitive electricity rates and proximity to Montreal’s burgeoning tech scene have made the city a cloud-computing destination



http://www.canadianbusiness.com/innovation/google-cloud-montreal/

Of note from the Financial Post article:


Now, combine this with the development of the AI scene in Montreal (Microsoft, Concordia, etc.) and you might see a massive competive advantage appearing a la the video game industry back in the 90s. Meanwhile in Ontario...

I mean, sure, if you want to point to some businesses locating in Quebec and ignore all the businesses locating in Ontario, that's one way of going about it...
 
Of course there have been some businesses locating in Ontario. But there is a definite trend towards Quebec being able to leverage and target its growth far better than Ontario- something that's being reported throughout media.

Toronto by virtue of its size will attract tech, but there's no doubt that Quebec punches above its weight, especially considering that throughout there's been larger increases in venture capital funding in Quebec, even as Montreal catches up to Toronto.

Canadian venture capital soars in 2015; Quebec and BC catch up to Ontario
http://www.geektime.com/2016/03/08/...rs-in-2015-quebec-and-bc-catch-up-to-ontario/

A slight surprise for some might be the cities ranking. Montreal rose five places to be the 11th strongest venture capital city in North America and Toronto swapped spots with Austin to reach the number 13 spot. Vancouver and Kitchener-Waterloo for their part were 20th and 21st place respectively.

In fact, our of the top eight rounds in the country only one was in Toronto (Flipp Corp) while three were in Montreal (Dalcor, Triotech, and Blockstream). The report also only noted three IPOs, none of which were VC-backed and none of them from Toronto. Fibre Noire Internet out of Montreal was one of them.

http://www.geektime.com/2016/11/06/...ing-stage-to-pass-2015-easily-by-end-of-year/

Moreso, we should look at how full-time employment in Quebec has been growing compared to Ontario- where the majority of work created has been part-time.

It is, in particular, difficult to ignore Quebec's unemployment rate, which dropped to 6.2 per cent by November, the lowest its been since Statistic Canada began releasing the figure in 1976.

"The tides in Quebec's economy seem to have turned, with more positive results rolling in for some time now," Desjardins said in its December economic outlook.

"Since July, Quebec has gained 71,900 new jobs — a 1.8 per cent increase. In contrast, job growth in the other provinces was only 0.5 per cent for the period."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-economy-forecast-2017-donald-trump-1.3918627

Maybe it's time to stop pretending that things will continue to be all nice and smooth when Quebec is catching up to us- maybe we should start considering that Ontario is underperforming despite our advantages?

Maybe it's time to fix our economic fundamentals rather than trying to patch things up with rebates after the mess has been made?

There's no doubt a change of government is absolutely necessary as the Liberals have grown stale, but what new government is necessary (a purged Liberal government, Conservatives, NDP , etc.) is up for debate.
 
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