Ramako
Moderator
Indeed. And discussing the quality of the gossip has generated even more discussion! Huzzah!
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Indeed. And discussing the quality of the gossip has generated even more discussion! Huzzah!
androiduk
Senior Member
I believe there are bylaws in place regarding derelict buildings, etc. You can't just leave them partially demolished. Also, the demolition company (in this case Priestly) probably bid on this job for a fixed price and have either been paid in full or at least a healthy part of the final cost.
casaguy
Senior Member
So Therion, was your client feeding you BS? Perhaps he's not such a good source. I don't think that sort of information can be kept quiet. Nine banks backing out would be big news.
urbandreamer
recession proof
Nine banks backing out of a PRIVATE company would be BIG news? No! It's a little secret amongst the top real estate/banking/development family that runs Toronto.
Remember the Family Compact? Well that's what Toronto's development industry is like c.2008.
Remember the Family Compact? Well that's what Toronto's development industry is like c.2008.
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Hydrogen
Guest
That's a tad harsh. What would this place be without all the rumours? Think of all the fun that was had with the like of PenInequity and its protracted development of Toronto Life Square?
Just think of the poor lost piano from the Union Station renovation - also rumoured to be dead? (the reno - not the piano)
Macc
New Member
You don't need financing for that. The total financing for the project is done in draw downs. The cost is pretty expensive to build and with the market in the U.S. a lot of the banks here have been a hell of a lot more cautious. The majority of the builders are now moving towards the core. Even with the amount of pre sales, I was surprised that financing was an issue. Though I am not giving any rumours, I'm just telling you what I've experienced first hand. I'm just saying, Bazis is on the fence at the moment. You don't know what he's thinking or what is going on. There are 2 other very large builders who are building close by who are waiting to see themselves.
No offense to some of you guys but asking for evidence? Do you even KNOW who/what is backing Bazis?? The majority of you if not all are nobodies to this industry. The best you would ever hear are rumours. Any solid proof would not pass on to anyone else unless leaked. That's where the "news" comes in.
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Hydrogen
Guest
Oh, I love it! So harsh!!
Bitch slap those vacant industry-outsider nobodies if they should dare to ask for evidence.
Do you have any evidence?
Mike in TO
Senior Member
I find it a bit odd that for an urban site that is generally dedicated to construction projects that there is so much hostility or demands for people to defend their info from forum members who in many cases have no connections to the industry (except this site). When some people potentially with industry connections (clearly this isn't the same guy as investor/vulture) post some data on the project they're basically told they aren't welcome to post on UT. Aren't industry people the kinds of members that UT should be trying to attract?
Well I'm not a newbie and I can tell you that there have been problems with the site and that exit options were looked at in the past. Financing was an issue that proved to be very difficult to obtain and there were some other issues beyond the developers control that threatened the project, but I'm not going to get into any more details. As for the demands for evidence right here right now - if the information is private it's not going to be posted on a public website - it's as simple as that. Also as mentioned any information related to financing and construction contracts between private companies aren't going to be reported in the media. And lastly financing often comes in different stages of the project and can come from multiple institutions (credit conditions have changed drastically this year) - demolition has nothing to do with construction financing.
I'm not suggesting the project will or won't be built as I haven't been privy to any info for several weeks beyond the back & forth banter that's posted here, however it's certainly not been a smooth ride for the proponent - there is plenty of "smoke" for those who know where to look.
casaguy
Senior Member
So will still don't know what Garth Turner was talking about? Did a condo actually come and go without anyone here noticing?
too bad we don't have a 'BazisWebmaster'....
True. But remember our favourite webmaster has to wear his employer's hat and can only tell us the great things about their projects... or remain silent.
Ramako
Moderator
Really? I've honestly thought it was him the whole time. It seems odd that a flood of people would be joining UT just to post rumours about a controversial project, which investor/vultur happens to particularly despise.
Yes, generally private information cannot be shared, but considering the shear number of insiders popping up recently, I would have expected that at least one or two would have leaked something substantial. There's something monotonously hollow about this current buzz.
I'm not saying anyone should be banned. I'm just saying that I'm suspicious because of the way in which these rumours are being presented. And frankly, whereas some sources, such as yourself, have a lot of credibility, others, who have no history here, do not. That counts for something.
No, I'm not an industry insider. Does that mean that I am not allowed to express skepticism Mike? Isn't half the fun of a rumour the consideration of its legitimacy?
Macc
New Member
Thank you Mike In TO for understanding. As for Your statement Hydrogen, I was blunt as it is equivalent for me to tell CERN I don't believe their LHC is safe and to provide evidence to me that it is otherwise I don't believe them. First of all, I am NO ONE in that arena that they would even care to provide the slightest proof, and when it happens, it happens. They are just stating what they've done and gathered first hand, and things can change with the final outcome.
I have never posted any doom or gloom on this project, I just stated that we provided an offer to purchase, it was not accepted as his mind was changed. That's all. WE are still waiting to see if it hopefully goes under so it can be picked up. Either way, the project will proceed, if its with the current owner, or a new one. There would obviously be changes to design if it were to change hands.
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Hydrogen
Guest
All very interesting, but the hand-wringing over the LHC is also based on hearsay, innuendo and supposed "insider knowledge" (it was physicists, after all, who brought up the issue of earth-gobbling black holes as a potential outcome). It's all made for some great yellow journalism, some fear-mongering and even some death threats. The RHIC at Brookhaven National Laboratory was also feared as being capable of creating black holes, causing a transition into another quantum mechanical vacuum and producing strange matter. None of that happened.
So far, with respect to 1 Bloor East, what we have are references to "insiders" who don't want to speak out about what they supposedly know. Also, there does not appear to be any published references to the specific financial situation of this project. What does exist is a tighter lending environment than that of two years ago, but that is a reality for all developments, and not for this one alone. This project has already sold a considerable number of units - which suggests a degree of viability from that perspective. If the knowledge of imminent cancellation is so certain, then why does work continue on the site? It would suggest that, for the time being, this project is active. Evidence otherwise is not yet at hand.
It is interesting to read that you hold out hopes that this project fails. I guess that must say something. However, there would be no guarantee that any subsequent replacement would be built either.
Yes, for outsider nobodies (like me), the official cancellation from the developer will count far more than statements about knowing someone who knows someone who is an expert who has information that they don't want to talk about (not that I don't enjoy reading about this stuff; some of it may even turn out to be true).
Sir Novelty Fashion
Senior Member
Christ, it all makes sense now. 1BE is about to get swallowed by a black hole! I'd totally be backing out if I was Bazis too.
allabootmatt
Senior Member
I do not work in the industry (I guess I am not an "insider") but deal with it on a regular basis. I submit the following:
In June, I was told by Brad Lamb, Kyle Rae, and Jane Renwick--all of them--that 1BE was a go. No financing problems, nothing, and well-sold. I specifically asked KR about the possibility of a second Metropolis situation in the ward, and he swore up and down that wouldn't happen. This was a few months ago, but take it for what it's worth.
Last week, I asked someone I communicate with at Bazis whether there was a financing problem. That person said no.
All of these people could, of course, be wrong.
But this is some semi-insider info from someone who has been on the forum a lot longer than the doom and gloom crowd, and those of you who know me can vouch for my bona fides.
I am pretty confident about 1BE, for the reasons above and because Bazis do not seem to be interested in blowing this project and disappearing; they are clearly looking to be in the Toronto market for a long time, and allowing their signature project to become a failure would make that very difficult.
All of that said, stranger things have happened than a deal for something like this falling apart.
In June, I was told by Brad Lamb, Kyle Rae, and Jane Renwick--all of them--that 1BE was a go. No financing problems, nothing, and well-sold. I specifically asked KR about the possibility of a second Metropolis situation in the ward, and he swore up and down that wouldn't happen. This was a few months ago, but take it for what it's worth.
Last week, I asked someone I communicate with at Bazis whether there was a financing problem. That person said no.
All of these people could, of course, be wrong.
But this is some semi-insider info from someone who has been on the forum a lot longer than the doom and gloom crowd, and those of you who know me can vouch for my bona fides.
I am pretty confident about 1BE, for the reasons above and because Bazis do not seem to be interested in blowing this project and disappearing; they are clearly looking to be in the Toronto market for a long time, and allowing their signature project to become a failure would make that very difficult.
All of that said, stranger things have happened than a deal for something like this falling apart.
michael
New Member
I have read this forum quit often as I work for one of the consulting firms that is working on this project. I am amaze at how little people understand all nuances of development industry. Very few people unless they are inside truly understand the complexity and size of this project. There is over a million s.q.ft of retail, hotel and residential space to be build at one of the busies corner's in Canada, and its all has to be co-ordinated with the City and TTC to minimize the disruption the area.And believe me to get sign off from TTC can be a trying experience. On top you have to co-ordinate with Bloor street improvement work that is going on.
I can only tell you what we been told.
1.Demolition is almost done.
2.Disconnect of all the services to the site is proceeding. That includes all the water, gas, hydro and all the sewers.
3. Ellis Don has been awarded the contract to build this building.
4.Shoring contract has been awarded already and so is water proofing and de watering.
5.All the consultants are being pushed to finish all the working drawing by the end of September. And let me tell you, all are working long hours.
6.Additional bore holes will have to be drilled to finalize the mat design, now that all the building are demolished.
Add during this time co-ordination of all Architectural, Structural and M/E drawings is going on. Every thing is beeing checked and double check.
Every one was told the financing is in place and a project is a go. Its being done out of Europe.
Hotel will be announced very soon as its in the final design stage, hotel company wanted to make sure that it works for them.
For the size of the project its moving with amazing speed. And yes Bazis wants to make sure that everything works and all of their cost are in line, I don't think you can blame them.
I can only tell you what we been told.
1.Demolition is almost done.
2.Disconnect of all the services to the site is proceeding. That includes all the water, gas, hydro and all the sewers.
3. Ellis Don has been awarded the contract to build this building.
4.Shoring contract has been awarded already and so is water proofing and de watering.
5.All the consultants are being pushed to finish all the working drawing by the end of September. And let me tell you, all are working long hours.
6.Additional bore holes will have to be drilled to finalize the mat design, now that all the building are demolished.
Add during this time co-ordination of all Architectural, Structural and M/E drawings is going on. Every thing is beeing checked and double check.
Every one was told the financing is in place and a project is a go. Its being done out of Europe.
Hotel will be announced very soon as its in the final design stage, hotel company wanted to make sure that it works for them.
For the size of the project its moving with amazing speed. And yes Bazis wants to make sure that everything works and all of their cost are in line, I don't think you can blame them.
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