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Thread: Please please please do NOT vote Conservative

  1. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Earth Heals Herself View Post
    What exactly is bad about getting tough on crime?
    Ignatieff pretty much nailed this issue in the debates: modelling our prison system based on American-style mega-prisons is a huge mistake. They don't reform criminals, they breed criminals. Crime on average has dropped dramatically since the 1990s and continues to drop, so a "tough-on-crime" stance is just pandering to baseless assumptions and anecdotal observations. It's populist B.S. Nobody is "pro-crime".
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  2. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by gristle View Post
    All you have to say is that you are absolutely not a member of that organization, nor have you ever been. Simple as that.
    Yikes! What is this - the House Committee on Un-American Activities? ( " I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of the communist party ..." )

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    Quote Originally Posted by grey View Post
    Ignatieff pretty much nailed this issue in the debates: modelling our prison system based on American-style mega-prisons is a huge mistake. They don't reform criminals, they breed criminals. Crime on average has dropped dramatically since the 1990s and continues to drop, so a "tough-on-crime" stance is just pandering to baseless assumptions and anecdotal observations. It's populist B.S. Nobody is "pro-crime".
    Why do Canadians think that we can reform criminals? Most of them are so emotionally, psychologically messed up that no amount of rehab will have any positive effect on them. Some people are just doomed. No sane person would ever resort to crime. Who said Americans are trying to reform criminals? Maybe they just want them isolated from society? Would you rather we let people get away with murder because it's too expensive to keep them imprisoned? How can we even consider giving murderers parole? It's absurd. Why do we protect criminals so much in this country? We can't even release the identity of the ones that are not of age. What a fantastic system we have. Getting tougher on crime doesn't mean we'll turn into USA #2. America has been marred by violence from it's beginning. It's a cyclical plague that hasn't effected Canada in the same way. We can't just assume that what hasn't worked in the States won't work here. As of now, there is very little to deter one from killing another human being. I could kill somebody and be back on the streets in a few years. If we started handing out life sentences with no chance of parole or the death penalty, I'm most certain people would think twice before ending somebody's life.
    Last edited by Earth Heals Herself; 2011-Apr-30 at 05:11.

  4. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Earth Heals Herself View Post
    No sane person would ever resort to crime.
    This is an incredibly naive premise, but let's not dwell on that:

    Quote Originally Posted by Earth Heals Herself View Post
    Would you rather we let people get away with murder because it's too expensive to keep them imprisoned? How can we even consider giving murderers parole? It's absurd. Why do we protect criminals so much in this country? We can't even release the identity of the ones that are not of age. What a fantastic system we have.
    This is somewhat close to Harper's position. Courts will strike down these changes to the Youth Criminal Justice Act and he KNOWS it. Again, he's taking a position that resonates with people with no chance of follow-up. Sentencing minors as adults has proven ineffective in deterring youth crime. Longer sentences do nothing to make society safer and only increase the burden on taxpayers. The prison lobbying machine succeeded in its work of frightening the public.

    Quote Originally Posted by Earth Heals Herself View Post
    Getting tougher on crime doesn't mean we'll turn into USA #2. America has been marred by violence from it's beginning. It's a cyclical plague that hasn't effected Canada in the same way.
    It's true that crime stats are very different in America, but it's not a cyclical problem (not sure where that idea came from). It's largely related to severe social inequality and there's a close association with Roe v. Wade. It's not because 'some people are inherently bad and we need to teach them a lesson.' Crime has been declining in America, too. There is a continuous steep decline in violent crime, but it's absolutely not because of the prison system and harsher sentencing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Earth Heals Herself View Post
    We can't just assume that what hasn't worked in the States won't work here.
    We don't have to assume. There's been a great deal of research based on real-world evidence, and it shows that severe punishment of young people will NOT prevent them from embarking on a life of recidivism and longer sentences for adults creates MORE hardened criminals out of those who committed lesser crimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Earth Heals Herself View Post
    As of now, there is very little to deter one from killing another human being. I could kill somebody and be back on the streets in a few years. If we started handing out life sentences with no chance of parole or the death penalty, I'm most certain people would think twice before ending somebody's life.
    This is so out-to-lunch that I'm not even going to continue. I will leave you with this:

    It costs the Canadian taxpayer $75,000 a year to maintain a prisoner in a Canadian federal prison. It cost tens of thousands to convict him. Yet it does nothing to prevent the crimes from continuing. It fails to address the root problems.
    Last edited by grey; 2011-Apr-30 at 11:34.
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  5. Default

    The root problem is poor parenting. The parents of criminals are the ones that have the best chance at curbing their children's bad habits. Do you truly believe a criminal that was abandoned by their parents, not loved or abused by them is going to listen to some social worker? Why is it so easy to get a divorce these days? Divorce rates have never been higher. Do we not realize how detrimental that is to children? The only way to stop crime is for parents to raise their children with lots of love and to know of their whereabouts. Families are being broken apart everyday and the potential for disaster is ever looming. Parents need to stop being so selfish and stick together for the sake of their children. I can't for the life of me figure out why couples give up on each other so easily these days. Marriage is a challenge and it's never perfect but you shouldn't turn on each other when life is stressful. Do vows even mean anything anymore? The family unit is what we really need to address. Why is no one doing that? It's far too easy to get a divorce and that needs to change. My parents have been married for 40 years and raised 4 children. That's commitment.

  6. #51

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    It costs the Canadian taxpayer $75,000 a year to maintain a prisoner in a Canadian federal prison. It cost tens of thousands to convict him. Yet it does nothing to prevent the crimes from continuing. It fails to address the root problems.
    Unless your solution is universal abortion which would certainly address the "root problem" what do you have to offer? Since your objections seem to be phrased in dollars how about cheaper jails in the Far North (no need for fences or guards) or chain gangs? In order to be a credible critic of anything you must have a better way of doing things ready for examination or you are kind of disqualified.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spider View Post
    Unless your solution is universal abortion which would certainly address the "root problem" what do you have to offer? Since your objections seem to be phrased in dollars how about cheaper jails in the Far North (no need for fences or guards) or chain gangs? In order to be a credible critic of anything you must have a better way of doing things ready for examination or you are kind of disqualified.
    Jails in the far north is a good idea. At least for convicted murderers. If we're not going to execute them and continue to complain about the cost of keeping them alive in prison, we might as well ship them to the middle of nowhere. Let them hunt for their own meals. They could roam free in the tundra.

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    This is priceless.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Earth Heals Herself View Post
    Jails in the far north is a good idea. At least for convicted murderers. If we're not going to execute them and continue to complain about the cost of keeping them alive in prison, we might as well ship them to the middle of nowhere. Let them hunt for their own meals. They could roam free in the tundra.
    Are you serious ? I can't tell if you actually believe this and some of the other things you've said about your views or if you're just being a troll ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by abcde View Post
    Are you serious ? I can't tell if you actually believe this and some of the other things you've said about your views or if you're just being a troll ...
    Well we could bring back capital punishment for convicted murderers, but that seems highly unlikely. Why should we pay to keep them alive? They serve no purpose. If we released them in the middle of nowhere they would be of no threat to anyone.

  11. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by spider View Post
    Unless your solution is universal abortion which would certainly address the "root problem" what do you have to offer? Since your objections seem to be phrased in dollars how about cheaper jails in the Far North (no need for fences or guards) or chain gangs? In order to be a credible critic of anything you must have a better way of doing things ready for examination or you are kind of disqualified.
    You seem to have skipped the entire post except the last-ditch appeal to conservatism??? I agree that rationalizing the argument based purely on monetary terms lacks compassion, but it seems to be the only way to reach some people.
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  12. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Earth Heals Herself View Post
    Well we could bring back capital punishment for convicted murderers, but that seems highly unlikely. Why should we pay to keep them alive? They serve no purpose. If we released them in the middle of nowhere they would be of no threat to anyone.
    Given that the Conservatives have promised that they wouldn't revisit capital punishment, abortion, or gay marriage, perhaps your supporting the wrong party.

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