The CityRail Concept: Real Regional Rail for the GTA

[gweed123]

I have a feeling that while that would not be its official name, it would become a nickname for the system.

It's quite common for nicknames or marketing names to be used for systems. The TTC has the "Rocket" moniker for the subway system, London has "the Tube" while still technically being called the London Underground.

While I could see it used as the official name (much like Berlin's S-Bahn or Paris' RER), I could also see it used as the casual reference, because "GO Regional Express Rail" would be quite a mouthful.

Also, given the future classifications of GO between Electrified Regional Express Rail and All-Day Two-Way Diesel service, I can see the need for some kind of casual distinction between the two. Whether it's officially adopted by GO or merely used casually, I'm sure that something will pop up.

 

[nfitz]

It's quite common for nicknames or marketing names to be used for systems. The TTC has the "Rocket" moniker ...

I've hard a hard time convincing my 4-year old that the GO Train (which she uses) isn't a called a Goat Train. And she's referred to the VIA Train as the Veal Train.

 

[Groperty]

Yip, looks and sounds like a good idea. Toronto's current system (the Toronto Transit Commission) is running over capacity during peak hours which constitutes anywhere from four to six hours per day (if everything is running smoothly). Seeing as the city still growing rapidly it is a must for the city to go skywards as it is extensively spread out already. Having more people in condominiums in the core as well as others living relatively close to the core, transit needs to happen fast and on a consistent basis. Implementing this should help a lot.

 

[ShonTron]

Stouffville pairs very well with Georgetown for several reasons. It's important that the service be through Union Station, to minimize dwell times (important given track and platform capacity). Both have similar ridership potential for the inner parts of their routes (Mount Pleasant - Mount Joy).

 

[gweed123]

Stouffville pairs very well with Georgetown for several reasons. It's important that the service be through Union Station, to minimize dwell times (important given track and platform capacity). Both have similar ridership potential for the inner parts of their routes (Mount Pleasant - Mount Joy).

Yup, I've always thought so. The more through-lines we have have at Union, the better. Much easier operationally.

What I'd like to see in the medium term is the Lakeshore and Brampton-Markham GO REX lines running as through-lines through Union, and then the Barrie and Richmond Hill lines running as diesel through-lines (connected as the Barrie-Richmond Hill line). The left-over line is the Milton line, which unfortunately will need to terminate at Union.

 

[Dan416]

I would think the Milton line would be the one line you wouldn't want to terminate at Union given it's the busiest non-Lakeshore line.

 

[CDL.TO]

I would think the Milton line would be the one line you wouldn't want to terminate at Union given it's the busiest non-Lakeshore line.

Or the fact that it's the busiest means that there isn't a line in the east with comparable ridership potential, making it the most sensible line to terminate at Union (or a new Parliament/Cherry station).

 

[gweed123]

I would think the Milton line would be the one line you wouldn't want to terminate at Union given it's the busiest non-Lakeshore line.

But the Milton line is by far the most difficult line to upgrade to REX standards (even if the ridership would warrant it). Once the Georgetown line is upgraded, it will easily surpass the ridership on the Milton line. That ridership may be artificially inflated because it isn't an even playing field, but it will still be higher.

And like CDL.TO said, the Milton line is the only line that doesn't have an equivalent eastern line with the same ridership levels. Barrie and Richmond Hill are and will likely continue to be very evenly matched. As will the Brampton and Markham lines once they are upgraded to REX standards.

All of those factors leave the Milton line as the odd man out, so to speak.

 

[doady]

I wouldn't be surprised if one day Milton becomes the line with the least service.

 

[gweed123]

I wouldn't be surprised if one day Milton becomes the line with the least service.

Which, when you examine the amount of latent ridership potential that each line has, it shouldn't be. The problem is, and most likely always will be, the fact that it's a main freight corridor, for which a bypass currently doesn't exist.

Although I still think that the Richmond Hill line will still have lower service, the Milton line, once GO REX is implemented on the Lakeshore and Brampton-Markham lines, will definitely be a distant 3rd (or 5th, depending on how you look at it) on the list in terms of ridership.

 

[M II A II R II K]

It would have been an MCC and Bloor West express line.

 

[Dan416]

Which, when you examine the amount of latent ridership potential that each line has, it shouldn't be. The problem is, and most likely always will be, the fact that it's a main freight corridor, for which a bypass currently doesn't exist.

Although I still think that the Richmond Hill line will still have lower service, the Milton line, once GO REX is implemented on the Lakeshore and Brampton-Markham lines, will definitely be a distant 3rd (or 5th, depending on how you look at it) on the list in terms of ridership.

Well yes if you slant the playing field in favour of all lines except Milton, of course Milton will fall behind when it doesn't get the same service levels.

They aren't adding additional 12-car sets of trains to the Milton line because of low ridership you know. It doesn't have the most frequent bus service of any of the corridors because of lack of ridership.

S-bahn service on Milton would be just as beneficial if not more beneficial on Milton as on any of the other lines.



Some of you say a subway to Mississauga isn't needed because you could (conceivably) serve MCC with GO.

Then some of you say Regional rail will basically never happen on the Milton line due to the freight issues.

So what exactly is your solution for Mississauga? Status quo? Oh lucky us.

 

[unimaginative2]

Two points:
It's not GO. Regional rail is completely and totally different from GO.

Everyone who favours regional rail thinks that the Milton corridor is very well suited, especially because it would serve both as a regional route and as a Mississauga rapid transit line. It's not like it would be that hard to upgrade. The corridor is already double tracked and a third track is being added in places. Building a dedicated double-track corridor would not be particularly difficult, either with two entirely new tracks or repurposing one or two existing tracks. Protecting for a full four-track corridor seems best, but I very much doubt CP would have anything more than single track with frequent sidings and CTC for freight on the Galt Sub if they didn't have the government paying for all these upgrades.

 

[Rainforest]

I would consider combining Milton line with Richmond Hill, rather than Barrie with Richmond Hill. If the Milton leg needs more service, some of trains can short-turn at Eglinton East.

For the Milton + Richmond Hill combination running frequent service, there will be some demand through Union (for example, riders who live in the east part of Toronto and work in Mississauga).

There will be no through demand for the Barrie + Richmond Hill combination.

Barrie line has least potential within Toronto, as it competes with a slightly slower but much more frequent Spadina subway line. It is best to keep the Barrie line express through Toronto with a minimal number of stops, for the benefit of far-away communities it serves in the north.

 

[gweed123]

Some of you say a subway to Mississauga isn't needed because you could (conceivably) serve MCC with GO.

Then some of you say Regional rail will basically never happen on the Milton line due to the freight issues.

So what exactly is your solution for Mississauga? Status quo? Oh lucky us.

The best way to improve service on the Milton line is to remove the freight operations. The best way to do that is to upgrade the existing York Sub (E-W across southern York Region), and to build a freight bypass along the 407.

It's a long shot, but it's the best way of getting increased service.

And I think that an extension of the Eglinton LRT to Sq 1 is more likely than a B-D extension, just because of cost.