Transit City Plan

[nfitz]

I only used the newspapers as an example. I was trying to say that in general conservatives seem allot more "babyish" then liberals.

I thought you were looking at left vs right, not left vs centre. What about socialists?

 

[nfitz]

Just what we needed. A transit city thread.

I think the mods need to start being a big more aggressive on merging these virtually identical threads.

 

[EddyMCD]

The speed of an Eglinton LRT if underground would be about the same as if it were a subway. In fact, depending on the characteristics of the train design, it might even be faster since our subway trains have relatively slow acceleration specs.

I think it will be dependent on the stop spacing. In any case if anyone is actually thinking long term (30+ years) not having a subway on Eglinton could be bad. If it gets heavily developed like Yonge capacity will be an issue and then it will be a very expensive upgrade.

 

[SupraT]

[video=youtube;xP4zBrieXtY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP4zBrieXtY[/video]

this guy has some pretty good points, please watch and discuss

 

[Electrify]

Just what we needed. A transit city thread.

I think the mods need to start being a big more aggressive on merging these virtually identical threads.

I was questioning myself about starting this thread because of this very fact. However, I think this adds to the discussion by polling two distinct transit plans, which the other threads do not.

 

[Marcanadian]

Looks like Transit City may be rising from the dead:

TTC chair Karen Stintz moves to bury Mayor Rob Ford’s subway

Mayor Rob Ford’s victory in avoiding a strike by city outside workers could be short-lived as a group of 24 city councillors moves to effectively bury the mayor’s vision of underground transit.

If they are successful, Toronto would return to a 2009 light rail transit plan, and it will be clear that Ford’s unwillingness to compromise is seriously hampering his ability to move his agenda forward.

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/...-s-subway?bn=1

 

[MetroMan]

Given those two options, I prefer Transit City. We have this once in a generation opportunity given to us by the province to build an extensive network of rapid transit, and Ford's plan will blow it all on a single line that is neither a subway nor a budget saving LRT.

I don't think that Transit City was perfect, but it is the better of the two. If I could choose a strategy, it would be to build Eglinton and Sheppard LRT as per Transit City and a busway on Finch. Use the surplus Finch LRT money to begin converting the Sheppard line into an LRT one station at a time. This would significantly lower the price to extend Sheppard westward to Downsview and beyond. The LRT could eventually move on to Finch or continue on Sheppard with North/South buses feeding Finch riders on to the new Sheppard cross town LRT.

The FrankensubwayLRT needs to be remedied. Currently, Sheppard is being heavily subsidized by tax dollars (not the farebox). Converting Sheppard to LRT stops the bleeding and ensures a continuous ride from Scarborough to Yonge and beyond on a single train. Sheppard won't have the ridership to justify its subway for 30 years at best, but more realistically 40 to 50 years. An LRT can handily take care of Sheppard's needs for the distant foreseeable future.

 

[Paleo]

Ford has no one to blame but himself for this.

 

[Marcanadian]

Yep. Council was willing to compromise, but Ford had to be stubborn enough to back himself into a corner.

 

[11th]

They should stick with a "subway" system (be it undeground, or trenched, or elevated) extension plan and works towards it. What I do not like about the original Transit City was it literally threw away any possible expansion of the subway system (or grade-seperated routes). People say "it's a once a generation funding from province and federal", right it is, then use it to build the long-awaited DRL.

Sheppard won't have the ridership to justify its subway for 30 years at best, but more realistically 40 to 50 years. An LRT can handily take care of Sheppard's needs for the distant foreseeable future.

But will people 40-50 years laters say, "what the hell were they thinking? now it costs 70billion to reconvert the tunnel, and rip up the tracks and extend the tunnels." ?

edit: as for the poll, can't choose either; neither is the right plan.

 

[MetroMan]

Yep. Council was willing to compromise, but Ford had to be stubborn enough to back himself into a corner.

I have to say, this is thoroughly entertaining and satisfying to watch.

It had seemed like Ford's biggest defeat was council voting to overturn his budget cuts. This is going to completely overshadow that. The budget defeat was at least covered up with supposed victories. Reverting back to Transit City despite the Mayor's press conference is a total rebellion by Council against Ford. There's no way to make this look good.

So in the end, what we'll have lost is a few million on pointless studies and less than a couple of years. According to David Miller, Transit City can be turned back on like a light switch. The Sheppard LRT is ready to go and can be under construction in a few months. Finch can start by the end of the year, or early next. Eglinton can be switched back to the Transit City alignment with no schedule repercussions.

 

[MetroMan]

But will people 40-50 years laters say, "what the hell were they thinking? now it costs 70billion to reconvert the tunnel, and rip up the tracks and extend the tunnels." ?

The tunnel wouldn't be narrowed. It would still be up to subway spec. What would change is the the rail gauge to LRT, the addition of overhead power and a ramp up at stations to bring the LRT floor up to the platform. The tunnel from Yonge to Downsview can be dug with the CBM's being used for the York University subway extension so a future conversion to subway in 40 to 50 years won't be bogged down by tunnels that are too narrow. Beyond Downsview, we'd have above ground LRT which could be extended every year at a price that we can afford. Keeping Sheppard as a subway guarantees that we can only build an extension once more provincial or federal money is available (in another 20 years?).

 

[Dandy Horse]

that guy (in the video) is a both ignorant of the facts and condescending.

 

[Justin10000]

It's a no-brainer. A plan with fewer stations predominately in the east does not serve the needs of Toronto.

Transit City all the way.

 

[rbt]

And it makes fiscally sense to build and constantly two forms of urban transportation in a city whose urban area only has close to 6 million residents? I would like to call BS on that one, we are not LA nor New York that can afford them. We can only afford one form of transportation, and personally I think Ford made the right call in killing Transit City.

New York cannot afford subways. There is a reason why portions of their system has been at or over capacity for the last 60 years with near zero expansion.

I think Washington DC is the only city in North America that can be described as easily affording subways and it's much more of a commutter service (like GO or BART or Metra) than for local service. It seems to help that when they apply for federal funding various military and intelligence agency reps encourage it to be funded because their staff use it. They also seem to be willing to toll highways and add special taxes for construction of recent lines (Silver Line).