DRL routing. Where would you put it?

[rbt]

I'm in favour of Queen or Richmond, myself. As others have stated in various ways, Union is only a hub because of historic circumstance; it doesn't HAVE to be included in a DRL for the line to be effective.

Imagine Chicago's rail system (CTA). Take all of the Loop plus downtown red/blue line stations and combine them all into a single station. Roughly half to 2/3rds of CTAs train ridership terminates inside the loop (375k to 500k).

That is what we are predicting Toronto's Union Station will be around 2020 (roughly 400k trips between LRT, TTC, GO, and VIA); particularly if we get projects like East Bayfront finished.


We really want to start spreading out the load over a few more blocks.

 

[11th]

what about the Liberty Square, Fort York, Cherry, Eastern and with the Portlands, etc neighbourhoods.

There was that 1) Waterfront LRT plan, or 2) electrification of Lakeshore line, or 3) putting money issue aside, build another line on Front/by the railway ROW.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

If we wish to keep Queen as a local corridor and have the DRL relieve congestion at Bloor/Yonge, than we should avoid building along Queen unless and until it can be shown that the vast majority of riders transferring at Bloor/Yonge are headed for the Queen area.

In a perfect world I'd have a DRL running through the central core business district (king/wellington) and a second local subway line (or streetcar) running along Queen from say Roncy or Dufferin to the Beaches. With local stop spacing.

 

[kkgg7]

I don't get it, what was wrong with this plan?
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2135/2411960022_33380eba17.jpg
Is it because of the EA? Budget?

what's wrong with the plan is 1) it doesn't serve a second purpose of transporting people east-west across downtown core. 2) almost all office towers are North of Union (people should go in both direction)

A fundamental flaw in running this line is that everyone on it will be heading to Union in the morning, and out of union in the afternoon. Hardly anyone will exit in other stations.

A line on Richmond would make a lot more sense. Remember, it is a subway, not a commuting train. It should be useful besides the rush hours. Imagine this line gets built, and what is ridership would like at 2 pm. Even during rush hours, the train to each direction will be empty after passing union in the morning and before reaching union in the afternoon. Is it the best way to run a urban subway?

It is quite a different story for Richmond or Queen as people keep crossing the town all the time.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

what's wrong with the plan is 1) it doesn't serve a second purpose of transporting people east-west across downtown core. 2) almost all office towers are North of Union (people should go in both direction)

A fundamental flaw in running this line is that everyone on it will be heading to Union in the morning, and out of union in the afternoon. Hardly anyone will exit in other stations.

A line on Richmond would make a lot more sense. Remember, it is a subway, not a commuting train. It should be useful besides the rush hours. Imagine this line gets built, and what is ridership would like at 2 pm. Even during rush hours, the train to each direction will be empty after passing union in the morning and before reaching union in the afternoon. Is it the best way to run a urban subway?

It is quite a different story for Richmond or Queen as people keep crossing the town all the time.

Personally I think the DRL should end at Bloor or Landsdowne!

 

[dunkalunk]

I think it would be great if the line were on King and if streetcars were converted to a largely local service, albeit with a degree of signal priority. On the other hand, a Wellington alignment would make a dip south to serve the Donlands much easier. From an intensification standpoint, I think that King or Wellington would be the best option, and it would also remove a great number of transfers between the DRL and YUS to get to Union as at that distance and good wayfinding, you can just encourage people to walk.

But apart from ease of construction, what is the draw of building a subway on Richmond or Adelaide? Where would it be routed once those streets end in the west?

 

[11th]

From an intensification standpoint, I think that King or Wellington would be the best option, and it would also remove a great number of transfers between the DRL and YUS to get to Union as at that distance and good wayfinding, you can just encourage people to walk.

May I ask why would there be great number of transfers between DRL and YUS towards Union station? Other than the Lakeshore West line, ARL, VIA, and GO buses, I don't think there's a need for people on the DRL to get to Union. (Queen East intersects Stouffville and Lakeshore East east of Broadview, and intersects Milton, Barrie, and Georgetown lines at Dufferin)

 

[dunkalunk]

If the number of longer intercity trips is expected to grow on the Lakeshore and Georgetown corridors, then Union will still remain as the major transfer node for these kinds of trips, regardless of whether or not it is decided to build auxiliary stations at Liberty and Cherry. These kinds of transfers could be mitigated through Presto if a rush hour downtown transfer penalty were imposed.

I still support a King/Wellington alignment though, as Queen's built form with large amounts of lower density service businesses would be better served by frequent, local streetcar service while there is more opportunity to intensify the built form directly on King Street through development on former car dealerships and industrial lands, especially in Liberty Village and the Donlands.

 

[Palma]

There was that 1) Waterfront LRT plan, or 2) electrification of Lakeshore line, or 3) putting money issue aside, build another line on Front/by the railway ROW.

But would local residents really take GO (I am assuming that is the Lakeshore line) unless the fare was the same as the TTC

 

[Rainforest]

May I ask why would there be great number of transfers between DRL and YUS towards Union station? Other than the Lakeshore West line, ARL, VIA, and GO buses, I don't think there's a need for people on the DRL to get to Union. (Queen East intersects Stouffville and Lakeshore East east of Broadview, and intersects Milton, Barrie, and Georgetown lines at Dufferin)

There is no room for new GO station platforms at Queen / Dufferin.

 

[11th]

But would local residents really take GO (I am assuming that is the Lakeshore line) unless the fare was the same as the TTC

That's another suggestion, travelling on GO within Toronto should have the same fare rate as TTC. Not sure when or if that will be implemented though.

 

[11th]

There is no room for new GO station platforms at Queen / Dufferin.

How about west side of Dufferin north of the rail tracks? looks to have room on satellite map. (my thought on the Queen routing will turn at Dufferin to run alongside the rail ROW with stops at Dufferin, Dundas West, then Bloor.)

 

[nfitz]

That's another suggestion, travelling on GO within Toronto should have the same fare rate as TTC. Not sure when or if that will be implemented though.

It would solve the TTC's budget issues though.

 

[Palma]

I noticed that Front St ends at Bathurst which I had forgotton and that Wellington Street ends at Strachan. Should those 2 streets not be extended west to Dufferin at least before a potential subway? Even Queens Quay ends at Bathurst or Stadium Rd. Why not extend this street also?

 

[dunkalunk]

Yes, the street does end there, but remember that underground subways could easily be routed onto or under the rail corridor. The same cannot be said however for Richmond or Adelaide which end in the vicinity of Niagara surrounded by dense developments. The line would have to be at least 3-4 stories deep in this area just to avoid building foundations