Rail: Ontario-Quebec High Speed Rail Study

[Whoaccio]

I need to give a presentation on the advantages and disadvantages of each different product I guess, and how they would work for Canada. That's why I was asking...

Umm... I don't know if these would even count as technologies per se. It is the same underlying concept, sort of like comparing a Dell to an HP. Do you want technical data on each (i.e. power output, dimensions, suspension)? Or is it more of a broad overview? As far as I know, the TGV Est is the fastest HSR in operation, and as a rule of thumb the ICE routes tend to be the slowest (old rail network, a lot of it not suitable for 300+ km/h and a bunch of bottlenecks). Wikipedia tends to be a fairly decent source for just basic overviews (more so if you read the french or german versions).

 

[allabootmatt]

Umm... I don't know if these would even count as technologies per se. It is the same underlying concept, sort of like comparing a Dell to an HP. Do you want technical data on each (i.e. power output, dimensions, suspension)? Or is it more of a broad overview? As far as I know, the TGV Est is the fastest HSR in operation, and as a rule of thumb the ICE routes tend to be the slowest (old rail network, a lot of it not suitable for 300+ km/h and a bunch of bottlenecks). Wikipedia tends to be a fairly decent source for just basic overviews (more so if you read the french or german versions).

I am a regular ICE rider and yeah, they're not quite in the same league as the TGV routes. Thing is, Deutsche Bahn still gets away with some pretty rapacious prices for a ride on the fancy-looking train...

 

[rbt]

25 billion dollars? Travel times would decrease at least 10% using the existing rolling stock if fewer trains made all 10 or so stops between Toronto and the next major city.

A very large portion of that cost is purchasing a new rail corridor independent of CP and CN Rail, possibly adjacent to the existing corridor but not necessarily.

Via's biggest issue is that they don't have dedicated rails. If you remove the stops as you indicate, they would simply have to slow down the trains so they don't ride the ass of the freight in front of them.

 

[p5connex]

Forget your preying, hoping, crossing your fingers, wishing upon a star, holding your breath till you turn purple - this ain't ever gonna happen - at least not a proper HSR network. There is just no political ambition to even put something like this together - Quebec and Ontario may say they want an HSR line, but one can imagine it would imply a stop-gap measure, probably nothing more than a minor upgrade to VIA - then there is the Federal gov't, which shows about as much interest towards public transit as they do to a heaping pile of cow s--t...not to mention that if we want to do this properly, the trains will have to be electrified and run on dedicated tracks (i know this was mentioned before.)

The sad part is that, the largest regional commuter service in Canada at the moment, I believe is GO and there are only plans to electrify the Lakeshore line at the moment - and somehow I am afraid that given the present economic circumstances we can say 2030 will be the approximate time of completion.

Ahh...I guess I shouldn't post anything, because I only have negative things to add..sorry - just sheer frustration at the lack of competence and foresight- everything for today and nothing for the future, is how our governments work!

p-five

 

[jswag]

Forget your preying, hoping, crossing your fingers, wishing upon a star, holding your breath till you turn purple - this ain't ever gonna happen - at least not a proper HSR network. There is just no political ambition to even put something like this together - Quebec and Ontario may say they want an HSR line, but one can imagine it would imply a stop-gap measure, probably nothing more than a minor upgrade to VIA - then there is the Federal gov't, which shows about as much interest towards public transit as they do to a heaping pile of cow s--t...not to mention that if we want to do this properly, the trains will have to be electrified and run on dedicated tracks (i know this was mentioned before.)

Well, that's the cynical view... there is political ambition and if McGuinty's right then the proposal was getting Harper's "wheels spinning" (he was probably seeing lots of votes in Quebec).

The sad part is that, the largest regional commuter service in Canada at the moment, I believe is GO and there are only plans to electrify the Lakeshore line at the moment - and somehow I am afraid that given the present economic circumstances we can say 2030 will be the approximate time of completion.

That is a very unrealistic view. Electifying the Lakeshore line is one of Metrolinx's top projects and is budgeted for. 2015 is more like the time of completion.

It's easy to be negative given our past experiences and I agree with your sentiments. The way I see it, several factors are converging to provide a ripe environment for this to actually take place-- environmental concern, (recently) high gas prices, economic uncertainty... the chances are definitely better now than they were at any other time.

 

[dunkalunk]

I know I am probably incredibly late to the party, but in regard to Route alignments, I've come up with something in Google Maps that shows what kind of service I hope VIA Rail will provide. It includes a network of both high speed corridors and local lines in the Windosr-Quebec City Corridor. UPPERCASE DENOTES HIGH SPEED STOPS. Lowercase denotes local stops.

Link

 

[cacruden]

If they did a high-speed link Windsor -> Quebec City, that they would be able to collaborate with the United States and maybe have it go all the way to Chicago (through Toledo). Of course they would have to work out some border/customs stuff that would allow for little downtime (maybe like how the Chunnel train works where they go through the train while moving).

 

[cacruden]

I know I am probably incredibly late to the party, but in regard to Route alignments, I've come up with something in Google Maps that shows what kind of service I hope VIA Rail will provide. It includes a network of both high speed corridors and local lines in the Windosr-Quebec City Corridor. UPPERCASE DENOTES HIGH SPEED STOPS. Lowercase denotes local stops.

Link

I don't think any rail lines north of Barrie for rail makes much sense for passenger service. At a certain point (outside of major population centres) buses make better sense for "regular" speed services. I do wish the bus companies would offer "premium" buses though (2 + 1 seats across, a little more leg room, power, and internet).

 

[afransen]

Yeah, I'm absolutely certain that that Welland Canal route could be adequately served by buses. It seems like one thing Ontario could do better would be to offer buses between cities local transit hubs, and also connect them to places like Pearson. Apparently the private airport limo (minibuses) services blow.

 

[wyliepoon]

If they did a high-speed link Windsor -> Quebec City, that they would be able to collaborate with the United States and maybe have it go all the way to Chicago (through Toledo). Of course they would have to work out some border/customs stuff that would allow for little downtime (maybe like how the Chunnel train works where they go through the train while moving).

Pre-border clearance, like what US-bound passengers at Pearson Airport have to go through, might also work. This system is proposed for the Hong Kong-Guangzhou HSR.

 

[nfitz]

(maybe like how the Chunnel train works where they go through the train while moving).

If your referring to the Eurostar services between England and the Continent, they do all that stuff before you board - not while the train is moving; at least when I've been on it.

 

[cacruden]

If your referring to the Eurostar services between England and the Continent, they do all that stuff before you board - not while the train is moving; at least when I've been on it.

When I was on it -- probably in 2001 sometime (last), you had to show your passport to the Eurostar people on entry (which closed EXACTLY 10 minutes before departure), then during the travel - UK immigration came by and asked everyone for id.

 

[cacruden]

Pre-border clearance, like what US-bound passengers at Pearson Airport have to go through, might also work. This system is proposed for the Hong Kong-Guangzhou HSR.

I cannot see them setting up at every train station along the way, not to mention when the train slows at a stop - there is a chance people can sneak on. Which is why I would think that they could do it between Windsor and Detroit stop, throw people off at Detroit that have to go back.

 

[wyliepoon]

Which is why I would think that they could do it between Windsor and Detroit stop, throw people off at Detroit that have to go back.

How slow would the train have to travel to give time for inspectors to go through all the passengers between Windsor and Detroit?

If pre-border clearance is set up on a Quebec-Chicago corridor, then I would suggest that all the immigration facilities be set up in the country with fewer stations, which would probably be the US (although the US might have some problems with Canadian customs setting up shop in their stations).

 

[dunkalunk]

How long does border screening usually take on a train?