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The Tenor (10 Dundas St E, Ent Prop Trust, 10s, Baldwin & Franklin)

  • Thread starter billy corgan19982
  • Start date
"That is barbaric to say Canadians shouldn't be equally supportive, positive and patriotic about their cities as the Americans. If all one sees is the negative and cynicism, where is the pride and care in that? Where's the balance?"

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"Yes, I agree, Toronto Life Square could be different or better in some respects. Overall the project is terrific. How could it not be? Do you remember what was there before? Is the complex finished? Let's be fair first!"

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"Lately this forum has been drowning in negative comments. I think some should be filtered out. One's frustrations and bitterness should not be targeted to this website, unless due fairness and substantiated fact. Perhaps the criticism should follow with concrete steps on how to improve it?"

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Don't you know Patriot? It's much cooler to be negative. Makes you look artsy and like you have supreme taste and stuff. Excuse me sir, do you have any grey poupon?

Toronto Life Square rocks and will more so when its finished.
Yeah, TLS totally rocks!! What's to hate?

- ugly gray cladding?
- unpleasant, lump-like stature?
- windows don't line up?
- ad frames don't line up?
- awful fake fans and vents?
- stupid nineties-inspired details?
- large visible gaps between ads?
- conspicously uneven spacing of satellite screens on the HD display?
- ugly corrugated metal roof is extremely visible from Yonge St?
- no plans at all for billboards along Yonge St?
- blank gray wall looms over Victoria St?
- looks worse than the renderings which were already pretty bad?
- they had over a decade to build this and obviously never consulted an architect?
- several cool tenants backed out at various stages?
- tenants now consist of utterly suburban bigbox operations?
- inconcievably stupid interior layout?
- exposed ceiling ductwork and piping?
- exposed fireproof insulation?
- cheap warehouse bowl-lighting?
- untiled, polished concrete floors?
- fire sprinklers within tampering reach of people on escalators?
- hazardous emergency theatre exits?
- single-file escalators?
- poorly planned narrow routes for TTC and PATH travellers?


Who cares! It's somehow terriffic anyway! Why can't we all live in the magical land of make-believe where none of these things exist? Everything turns out better when you settle for mediocrity.

And don't forget to claim "it's better than what was there before," and "don't judge it until it's finished" whenever someone says something bad about it (we'll be able to use this excuse for years to come, suckers!!).
 
Lately this forum has been drowning in negative comments. I think some should be filtered out. One's frustrations and bitterness should not be targeted to this website, unless due fairness and substantiated fact.

one should not confuse negativity with criticism...which is based on the idea of 'critical thought'. which is the basis of our whole entire civilization as-we-know-it. and is not a negative concept mr. patriot. our judicial system, our political system and every other damned system is based upon it. so read up on history and get with the critical program.
TLS? i think it sucks but i defend to the DEATH your right to say it don't.
 
Don't you know Patriot? It's much cooler to be negative. Makes you look artsy and like you have supreme taste and stuff. Excuse me sir, do you have any grey poupon?

Toronto Life Square rocks and will more so when its finished.


The fact of the matter is that those of us who are critical of the building are stuck with it - be it clad in American gray, British grey or Canadian post-winter bleh. You can find satisfaction in the idea that while we don't like it, the structure will not be going away any time soon.
 
Yeah, TLS totally rocks!! What's to hate?

- ugly gray cladding?
- unpleasant, lump-like stature?
- windows don't line up?
- ad frames don't line up?
- awful fake fans and vents?
- stupid nineties-inspired details?
- large visible gaps between ads?
- conspicously uneven spacing of satellite screens on the HD display?
- ugly corrugated metal roof is extremely visible from Yonge St?
- no plans at all for billboards along Yonge St?
- blank gray wall looms over Victoria St?
- looks worse than the renderings which were already pretty bad?
- they had over a decade to build this and obviously never consulted an architect?
- several cool tenants backed out at various stages?
- tenants now consist of utterly suburban bigbox operations?
- inconcievably stupid interior layout?
- exposed ceiling ductwork and piping?
- exposed fireproof insulation?
- cheap warehouse bowl-lighting?
- untiled, polished concrete floors?
- fire sprinklers within tampering reach of people on escalators?
- hazardous emergency theatre exits?
- single-file escalators?
- poorly planned narrow routes for TTC and PATH travellers?


Who cares! It's somehow terriffic anyway! Why can't we all live in the magical land of make-believe where none of these things exist? Everything turns out better when you settle for mediocrity.

And don't forget to claim "it's better than what was there before," and "don't judge it until it's finished" whenever someone says something bad about it (we'll be able to use this excuse for years to come, suckers!!).



Haha! Many of those things you listed can also be seen as positives. Others don't apply because, that's right! The place isn't finished yet. Basically the whole list is a matter of opinion.

The place isn't meant to be scrutinized as an architectural gem. So statements like "Windows don't line up, Ad frames don't line up" makes me laugh. The place is supposed to be loud and fun. And to that end, it achieved its goal.

But hey, whatever makes you look cool and smart!
 
Haha! Many of those things you listed can also be seen as positives. Others don't apply because, that's right! The place isn't finished yet. Basically the whole list is a matter of opinion.

The place isn't meant to be scrutinized as an architectural gem. So statements like "Windows don't line up, Ad frames don't line up" makes me laugh. The place is supposed to be loud and fun. And to that end, it achieved its goal.

Why is TLS excluded from being critiqued?

This forum is all about opinions, sharing of information and discussing all things urban. If you go back a hundred or so pages you'll see there was plenty of optimism regarding Metropolis but it was also somewhat guarded given this developers track record. Since this project has neared completion optimism has slowly lead to a great deal of disappointment, and indifference.
 
Haha! Many of those things you listed can also be seen as positives. Others don't apply because, that's right! The place isn't finished yet. Basically the whole list is a matter of opinion.

The place isn't meant to be scrutinized as an architectural gem. So statements like "Windows don't line up, Ad frames don't line up" makes me laugh. The place is supposed to be loud and fun. And to that end, it achieved its goal.

But hey, whatever makes you look cool and smart!

It achieved its goal if you have a low view on the area. This is a prominent place. We have only two big public squares in the downtown area. They deserve more than such a mediocre project. Forget about me or the other critics looking "cool", this about how the city looks. This is an important place that Torontonians see on a regular basis. Yonge Street, for better or for worse, is the tourism heart of the city as well. That's why there's a lot of critique, and the negative conclusions are justifiable.
 
Haha! Many of those things you listed can also be seen as positives. Others don't apply because, that's right! The place isn't finished yet. Basically the whole list is a matter of opinion.

The place isn't meant to be scrutinized as an architectural gem. So statements like "Windows don't line up, Ad frames don't line up" makes me laugh. The place is supposed to be loud and fun. And to that end, it achieved its goal.

But hey, whatever makes you look cool and smart!

I know, I know... it's not a bug, it's a feature!

Let me try to take Grey's deficiency list from another perspective:

- Somehow manages to be enormous on the outside yet claustrophobic on the inside. Kind of a reverse-TARDIS.

- For all its size, the interior provides no sense of vista, sightline, or ceremonial space. What vistas there are have the unpleasant habit of ending in fireproof insulation. To see how this can be done well, even in the service of dreary chain outlets, cross the road to the Eaton Centre. Or go down to the Paramount. Or up to Yorkdale.

- Pedestrian circulation is confusing and constricted. Wayfinding isn't intuitive. In crowd situations - narrow escalators over an open atrium, sprinklers within arms reach - it might even be dangerous.

- Natural lighting is almost nil.

- The theatre lobby manages to look cheap without being inexpensive, unlike, say, the Rainbow theatres, which at least are both (and has a piano on which people can play the theme from Top Gun over and over).

- Presents a wall of advertising to Dundas Square, with a tiny little entrance that's too diminuative and dark to entice the crowds over, which might be just as well given what's inside.

- Has no presence or coherence as a building. You could argue that this is a marriage of form and function in which the bride and groom are so wretched, they at least deserve each other. But a building's form has obligations to the city around it, too. A building of that scale needs to announce and explain itself coherently, even if it's speaking in a foreign language. It needs to explain to the city what it does and what's inside. Even a surly brutalist slab provides answers to these questions (even if the answer is "Fuck off").

Toronto Life Square, on the other hand, has no coherence at all. It has corporate logos plastered all over the place. But what to make of it? How are we to know that the little Shopper's Drug Mart badge pasted on the second floor refers to a shop hidden in the sub-basement, and not just another ad? Or that the AMC theatres with the sign above the front door leads to cinemas up a bewildering flight of escalators, through a food court? The problem here is that there's no relationship between the building's outside and its inside, so all the labelling on the outside is incoherent and arbitrary. The doors are dwarfed and unheralded; it's not even immediately clear how one is supposed to get into this thing to get to the store one wants.

- Also: Crushing in mind and spirit

- Fits almost any definition of ugliness that could be agreed upon

- A source of visual and psychic pollution

- The very incarnation of joylessness

- Fake fans on the outside.

What was there before? Well, before the blue hoarding, there was a stretch of stores that happily filled up a stretch of Yonge with its trademark semi-seediness. I'm not married to semi-seediness. But I'd take it over this.

And, my friends, this building is done. Finished as it's going to be. Done like dinner. Pining for the fjords. This is an ex-project.

Now. Seriously. About that Grey Poupon.
 
What was there before? Well, before the blue hoarding, there was a stretch of stores that happily filled up a stretch of Yonge with its trademark semi-seediness. I'm not married to semi-seediness. But I'd take it over this.

And the giant old "5 Big Hits" Biltmore Theatre, open from 9am - 4am with a real balcony. Toronto's last grindhouse Theatre. It was a semi-seedy block but it had lots of character.
 
Some final touch stores which is due to open this week or early next week
 

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Now that I've managed to bottle up my laughter, I'm able to look at this rationally:

Seeing how catastrophic this has turned out, I have absolutely no problems in imagining this building bought out by a serious developer (earning PenEquity an undeserved healthy profit) and investing serious capital into something spectacular in an amount of time from now less than it took to build this craptacular jumble of mess. I give it less than five years before PenEquity sells this piece of shit. That's being conservative. Torch lasted two years? Give TLS three...

This may have all along been a proof of concept scheme whereas PenEquity builds something on the absolutely most cheap, attracts investors, stores and the attention of Toronto's citizens and then sells the land and building to the highest bidder. They end up walking away with a ton of money in the bank at the expense of 10 to 15 years in the life of this intersection and making the city look like a fool for taking possession of this land and handing it to the least qualified developer. Brilliant plan, I must concede.
 
I'd love to be positive about TLS, but I just can't be. It's like a badly done suburban entertainment/shopping complex. You'd think with this intersection they'd take the opportunity to do something truly unique as far as consumerism goes, but instead it's lousy even by suburban standards.
 

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