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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

I can't seem to find much discussion about this, so I'll ask here.

Why hasn't GO Transit added and bus service to Don Mills Station? The are a lot of buses that pass that part of the 404/401 all day long. Examples include 51, 65, 61, 96, and probably more.

Won't a connection to the Sheppard Subway improve connectivity and could also act as a semi effective Relief Line? People can transfer from subway to GO if they want to get to Union or people at Scarborough Centre can use it to get downtown, bypassing the Bloor-Yonge.

There are so many benefits to having a GO terminal at Don Mills Station, why hasn't this happened yet?
 
Leo_Chan said:
I can't seem to find much discussion about this, so I'll ask here.

Why hasn't GO Transit added and bus service to Don Mills Station? The are a lot of buses that pass that part of the 404/401 all day long. Examples include 51, 65, 61, 96, and probably more.

Won't a connection to the Sheppard Subway improve connectivity and could also act as a semi effective Relief Line? People can transfer from subway to GO if they want to get to Union or people at Scarborough Centre can use it to get downtown, bypassing the Bloor-Yonge.

There are so many benefits to having a GO terminal at Don Mills Station, why hasn't this happened yet?
Click to expand...

Not sure, but maybe GO doesn't see the demand? All Richmond Hill corridor buses only go as far south as Langstaff before going to Union.

I mean, it would be 2 extra bucks to get to Union in half the time, would it be worth it? And if it was:
  • Would trip time be guaranteed? Traffic congestion is a big factor, even with bypass lanes.
  • If demand got to a point that trains would make more sense, is GO ready to run them?
I think to ultimately breaks down to there being an existing rapid transit alternative that does not require diesel fuel.
 
Leo_Chan said:
I can't seem to find much discussion about this, so I'll ask here.

Why hasn't GO Transit added and bus service to Don Mills Station? The are a lot of buses that pass that part of the 404/401 all day long. Examples include 51, 65, 61, 96, and probably more.

Won't a connection to the Sheppard Subway improve connectivity and could also act as a semi effective Relief Line? People can transfer from subway to GO if they want to get to Union or people at Scarborough Centre can use it to get downtown, bypassing the Bloor-Yonge.

There are so many benefits to having a GO terminal at Don Mills Station, why hasn't this happened yet?
Click to expand...

Because there are huge downsides that outweigh the benefits.

1) It they had those buses get off the highway, go into Don Mills, and get back on the highway, i) it would add 10-15 minutes to their trip each way, a lot of people have 30-45 minute trips on those buses currently so this is a huge increase, ii) it would prevent the buses from using the HOV lane southbound for the most congested part of their route, and make it much harder to use it northbound as they'd have to cross 5 lanes vs the existing 2 and have a shorter distance to do it.

2) I'm not aware of significant demand on the southbound buses for people coming in from Richmond Hill, Aurora/Newmarket/Barrie, Markham/Stouffville to exit their buses at Don Mills. I think most of the passengers are headed to the downtown area and can get to their destinations much more quickly via union. If so many people needed to get to the Sheppard Line, I don't think they'd be going all the way to Union in heavy traffic to do so, they'd be taking other transit routes or driving--the people on those buses want to go to Union.

3) Regarding it acting as a "relief line", there is often no room on those buses southbound at that point, and they are similarly often full leaving Union northbound. A lot of passengers trying to get to RH/Barrie/Stouffville line destinations would be left behind at Union because people who could have taken the subway took their seats to go one stop within the city, and coming southbound the bus would lose 10-15 minutes, plus time lost due to not taking the HOV lane, for no reason since almost nobody would exit at Don Mills leaving no room for boardings. I've had to wait for a second bus at both Aurora and Unionville before, at Unionville I was lucky to be first in line for the second bus as it only took on a few people leaving over a dozen passengers having waited for the first bus behind, plus those that arrived for the second bus.

So, I actually have to disagree that there would be "so many benefits", I see virtually no possible benefits for a huge negative impact on thousands of commuters who take those buses every day and don't have feasible alternatives, except possibly driving and adding even more congestion and pollution to the region. People near Don Mills and at STC have alternatives that they've been using for a long time: the subway; it may take a little longer and be a bit more crowded, but it's nowhere near as bad as making bus service useless for people as far as Barrie and Stouffville.
 
Megaton327 said:
Because there are huge downsides that outweigh the benefits.

1) It they had those buses get off the highway, go into Don Mills, and get back on the highway, i) it would add 10-15 minutes to their trip each way, a lot of people have 30-45 minute trips on those buses currently so this is a huge increase, ii) it would prevent the buses from using the HOV lane southbound for the most congested part of their route, and make it much harder to use it northbound as they'd have to cross 5 lanes vs the existing 2 and have a shorter distance to do it.

2) I'm not aware of significant demand on the southbound buses for people coming in from Richmond Hill, Aurora/Newmarket/Barrie, Markham/Stouffville to exit their buses at Don Mills. I think most of the passengers are headed to the downtown area and can get to their destinations much more quickly via union. If so many people needed to get to the Sheppard Line, I don't think they'd be going all the way to Union in heavy traffic to do so, they'd be taking other transit routes or driving--the people on those buses want to go to Union.

3) Regarding it acting as a "relief line", there is often no room on those buses southbound at that point, and they are similarly often full leaving Union northbound. A lot of passengers trying to get to RH/Barrie/Stouffville line destinations would be left behind at Union because people who could have taken the subway took their seats to go one stop within the city, and coming southbound the bus would lose 10-15 minutes, plus time lost due to not taking the HOV lane, for no reason since almost nobody would exit at Don Mills leaving no room for boardings. I've had to wait for a second bus at both Aurora and Unionville before, at Unionville I was lucky to be first in line for the second bus as it only took on a few people leaving over a dozen passengers having waited for the first bus behind, plus those that arrived for the second bus.

So, I actually have to disagree that there would be "so many benefits", I see virtually no possible benefits for a huge negative impact on thousands of commuters who take those buses every day and don't have feasible alternatives, except possibly driving and adding even more congestion and pollution to the region. People near Don Mills and at STC have alternatives that they've been using for a long time: the subway; it may take a little longer and be a bit more crowded, but it's nowhere near as bad as making bus service useless for people as far as Barrie and Stouffville.
Click to expand...
Would creating new route(s), rather than adding a stop to many routes work?
 
Leo_Chan said:
Would creating new route(s), rather than adding a stop to many routes work?
Click to expand...

Sure, theoretically, but GO doesn't run routes that solely (essentially) duplicate existing TTC service--in-city transit is the TTC's job; GO is a regional transit agency and Don Mills-Union is not a regional route. Also, keep in mind the fare would be significantly higher than a TTC fare.

Edit: and I'm starting to lose track of what the point of this route would be. It would be more expensive, but what would the point of it be? People from STC can already go to Union via Don Mills-Sheppard/Yonge-Union if they want, they don't because it's slower. But let's assume a passenger is at Don Mills and wants to go to Union, specifically--at all hours of day there's plenty of spare Line 4 capacity, off-peak there's plenty of spare Line 1 capacity, it's busy during peak but wait time should be less than 10 minutes southbound at Sheppard.

Compare that to the theoretical GO bus--going by Google Maps' typical traffic estimate for weekday mornings at 8 AM, that drive will take the bus 30 minutes-1 hour. Judging by personal experience, and I think most here can agree, in rush hour down the DVP to Union it's probably much closer to an hour. Google predicts 47 minutes for the subway, even adding additional wait time, I think the subway should be slightly faster or take the same time--and have a lower fare, and not spew diesel fumes into the air.

And if someone isn't going exactly to Union--if they're heading even to King, St Andrew, or Queen's Quay via the 509/510, it's going to be significantly faster, and MUCH cheaper, to take the TTC, since the TTC has you already on the subway/with an easy streetcar transfer vs. a walk to the TTC from the GO terminal and paying a TTC fare on top of the already-more-expensive GO fare for a total of $8-9 vs $3 each way, or having a significant walk if they don't choose to take a short TTC trip, adding even more time to this GO trip instead of TTC that they've paid more for.

As for relieving Line 1/Bloor-Yonge, like I said, off-peak there's no need, during peak does the DVP have a ton of excess capacity that's just begging to be filled up with more vehicles that don't need to be there?
 
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I wish GO would extend their Pearson service to start from STC instead of Richmond Hill Centre. That would allow residence of Scarborough to get to Pearson fairly easier than to rely on the TTC without extra transfers.

Right now the only way from STC is to take the Oshawa bus to Finch Station, or Yorkdale or York University Bus to Richmond Hill Centre then transfer to the Pearson bus
 
epcjay said:
I wish GO would extend their Pearson service to start from STC instead of Richmond Hill Centre. That would allow residence of Scarborough to get to Pearson fairly easier than to rely on the TTC without extra transfers.

Right now the only way from STC is to take the Oshawa bus to Finch Station, or Yorkdale or York University Bus to Richmond Hill Centre then transfer to the Pearson bus
Click to expand...

Did they do away with buses from Yorkdale to Pearson? Used to be a pretty busy route......if it still exists, not sure why you would go to Yorkdale, backtrack to RH to catch a bus to Pearson?
 
epcjay said:
I wish GO would extend their Pearson service to start from STC instead of Richmond Hill Centre. That would allow residence of Scarborough to get to Pearson fairly easier than to rely on the TTC without extra transfers.

Right now the only way from STC is to take the Oshawa bus to Finch Station, or Yorkdale or York University Bus to Richmond Hill Centre then transfer to the Pearson bus
Click to expand...

TOareaFan said:
Did they do away with buses from Yorkdale to Pearson? Used to be a pretty busy route......if it still exists, not sure why you would go to Yorkdale, backtrack to RH to catch a bus to Pearson?
Click to expand...

The 34 Pearson/North York still runs from Finch, Sheppard-Yonge, and Yorkdale to Pearson. In addition to the option you suggested (51 407 East to RHC, 40 Hamilton/Richmond Hill to Pearson), Google actually suggests the 92 Oshawa/Yorkdale from STC to Yorkdale to connect with the 34. That's more direct, but there's huge dwell time (30 min) at Yorkdale, and it ends up being the same amount of time (~1h 15min).

Making it a single route could make it a 45 minute trip if you still stopped at York Mills and Yorkdale on the way. Cutting those out and going express would save another 10 minutes.

Worthy suggestion IMO! Apparently east of Scarborough that would even be faster than Lakeshore East + UPX! Just depends on 401 congestion though, I guess that's still the big uncertainty without HOT/bypass lanes.
 
DonValleyRainbow said:
The 34 Pearson/North York still runs from Finch, Sheppard-Yonge, and Yorkdale to Pearson. In addition to the option you suggested (51 407 East to RHC, 40 Hamilton/Richmond Hill to Pearson), Google actually suggests the 92 Oshawa/Yorkdale from STC to Yorkdale to connect with the 34. That's more direct, but there's huge dwell time (30 min) at Yorkdale, and it ends up being the same amount of time (~1h 15min).

Making it a single route could make it a 45 minute trip if you still stopped at York Mills and Yorkdale on the way. Cutting those out and going express would save another 10 minutes.

Worthy suggestion IMO! Apparently east of Scarborough that would even be faster than Lakeshore East + UPX! Just depends on 401 congestion though, I guess that's still the big uncertainty without HOT/bypass lanes.
Click to expand...
So there is no need for someone at Yorkdale to go to RH to get to the airport...they could just, you know, get on the bus to Pearson?
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
So that derailment is going to make the Kitchener line a trek today!
Click to expand...
Shouldn't. It didn't seem to effect morning rush hour, other than some redirecting of foot traffic at Etobicoke GO, according to the radio news. At lunch I heard that GO Trains were not stopping at the station. And I saw a VIA train running westbound at Acton, so presumably it got through fine.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
So that derailment is going to make the Kitchener line a trek today!
Click to expand...

Nah, it was on the freight service track into XTL Transport, on the north side of the platform. Mainlines should be unaffected unless they're still using one to upright the train, last update said they needed to bypass the station until 3PM.
 
DonValleyRainbow said:
Nah, it was on the freight service track into XTL Transport, on the north side of the platform. Mainlines should be unaffected unless they're still using one to upright the train, last update said they needed to bypass the station until 3PM.
Click to expand...
nfitz said:
Shouldn't. It didn't seem to effect morning rush hour, other than some redirecting of foot traffic at Etobicoke GO, according to the radio news. At lunch I heard that GO Trains were not stopping at the station. And I saw a VIA train running westbound at Acton, so presumably it got through fine.
Click to expand...
Okay, fair enough.
 
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