Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[Megaton327]

There have been some developments recently that have made Apple Pay 100% ready for Presto, whenever Metrolinx feels like lifting a finger on mobile payment. The Suica transit farecard in Japan launched for Apple Pay recently, and Apple made a number of changes to the platform so that it now supports transit cards specifically, having previously only supported debit/credit cards.

I found this privacy disclaimer when setting up a relative's new Apple Pay-enabled (for web purchases) new MacBook Pro the other day:

When you use a transit card, information like recently visited stations, transaction history, and additional tickets may be accessed by the terminal. This information can be accessed by any nearby contactless reader if the card is set as your Express Transit Card (a setting that allows you to complete transactions without Touch ID or a passcode). You can manage Express Transit on your iOS device by going to Settings and tapping Wallet & Apple Pay.

Based on that I found these two support pages about using Japan's Suica transit farecard with Apple Pay: Set up a Suica card in Apple Pay, and Using Suica on iPhone or Apple Watch in Japan.

Apparently, unlike credit and debit cards where you enter the number, this card is added to Apple Pay by holding your iPhone against it, and it directly copies the RFID/NFC code from the card, wirelessly. Interestingly, it also invalidates the physical card, and unlike other cards it doesn't mirror automatically between the phone and the watch, if you move it from one to the other, it deletes the original, so it can only be used on one device at a time.

This new Express Transit Card feature is also important for future Presto deployment. I've heard some people say that, while quick, fingerprint authentication or passcode entry is an unacceptable delay in a busy transit environment. Apparently you can now configure it so that your transit card will work automatically without any manual intervention whatsoever--no fingerprint, no passcode, you don't even have to wake your phone/watch or press a single button, you just hold your device to the reader and it'll automatically wake up, bring up the transit card, and pay, near-instantaneously.

And they've also got a solution for reloading cards! You can just tap the info button on the card in your Wallet/Apple Pay app, and use one of the Apple Pay Credit/Debit cards on your device to transfer money to the transit card. This might provide for instant reloads on Presto, since the device holds the RFID/NFC "card" in memory it should, presumably, be able to update the balance for the card itself without needing to tap on a reader that has the pending load ready.

So, all in all, everything here sounds like it would be usable in exactly the same way for Presto, and offer some functionality upgrades to boot i.e. instant self-reloading anywhere, just using your phone.

Anyone want to take bets on how many years before Metrolinx considers debating evaluating whether they might want to eventually consider planning to request funding review for a potential study into the hypothetical process of theoretically seeing whether they could add Presto to Apple Pay at some point in the indefinite future?

 

[PinkLucy]

I'll just stick with auto load and keep using ApplePay for everything else

 

[MetroMan]

There have been some developments recently that have made Apple Pay 100% ready for Presto, whenever Metrolinx feels like lifting a finger on mobile payment. The Suica transit farecard in Japan launched for Apple Pay recently, and Apple made a number of changes to the platform so that it now supports transit cards specifically, having previously only supported debit/credit cards.

I found this privacy disclaimer when setting up a relative's new Apple Pay-enabled (for web purchases) new MacBook Pro the other day:



Based on that I found these two support pages about using Japan's Suica transit farecard with Apple Pay: Set up a Suica card in Apple Pay, and Using Suica on iPhone or Apple Watch in Japan.

Apparently, unlike credit and debit cards where you enter the number, this card is added to Apple Pay by holding your iPhone against it, and it directly copies the RFID/NFC code from the card, wirelessly. Interestingly, it also invalidates the physical card, and unlike other cards it doesn't mirror automatically between the phone and the watch, if you move it from one to the other, it deletes the original, so it can only be used on one device at a time.

This new Express Transit Card feature is also important for future Presto deployment. I've heard some people say that, while quick, fingerprint authentication or passcode entry is an unacceptable delay in a busy transit environment. Apparently you can now configure it so that your transit card will work automatically without any manual intervention whatsoever--no fingerprint, no passcode, you don't even have to wake your phone/watch or press a single button, you just hold your device to the reader and it'll automatically wake up, bring up the transit card, and pay, near-instantaneously.

And they've also got a solution for reloading cards! You can just tap the info button on the card in your Wallet/Apple Pay app, and use one of the Apple Pay Credit/Debit cards on your device to transfer money to the transit card. This might provide for instant reloads on Presto, since the device holds the RFID/NFC "card" in memory it should, presumably, be able to update the balance for the card itself without needing to tap on a reader that has the pending load ready.

So, all in all, everything here sounds like it would be usable in exactly the same way for Presto, and offer some functionality upgrades to boot i.e. instant self-reloading anywhere, just using your phone.

Anyone want to take bets on how many years before Metrolinx considers debating evaluating whether they might want to eventually consider planning to request funding review for a potential study into the hypothetical process of theoretically seeing whether they could add Presto to Apple Pay at some point in the indefinite future?

I was wondering about this myself. Thanks for the thorough explanation on how Suica works on ApplePay. The TTC is one of the logos in the coming soon section on the ApplePay page so I'm cautiously optimistic that the TTC has already been in talks with Apple about implementing it.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Several days ago, I added $10.00 to my Presto card online, but the transaction is still showing as pending. I haven't used the card since I reloaded it. Will the $10 be added onto it next time I tap?

 

[Blip Noir]

Several days ago, I added $10.00 to my Presto card online, but the transaction is still showing as pending. I haven't used the card since I reloaded it. Will the $10 be added onto it next time I tap?

Yep. Unless you reload at an in-station kiosk it won't automatically show up in your balance. The next time you tap it will be updated.

 

[KevinT]

Interestingly, it also invalidates the physical card, and unlike other cards it doesn't mirror automatically between the phone and the watch, if you move it from one to the other, it deletes the original, so it can only be used on one device at a time.

Transit cards are "stored value", i.e. the card knows the balance, so that they can work with vehicle-based readers which may operate offline (by default or on occasion). If I had $10 on a stored value card and copied it to two other places, then I'd have $30 available, a handy fraud. That's why transit cards can only exist in a single device at a time (card, phone, or watch).

Debit/credit cards hold only a credential, which is validated online to verify funds in a remote place (your financial institution's computer), so multiple copies under the control of the legitimate account holder are allowed.

 

[Megaton327]

Transit cards are "stored value", i.e. the card knows the balance, so that they can work with vehicle-based readers which may operate offline (by default or on occasion). If I had $10 on a stored value card and copied it to two other places, then I'd have $30 available, a handy fraud. That's why transit cards can only exist in a single device at a time (card, phone, or watch).

Debit/credit cards hold only a credential, which is validated online to verify funds in a remote place (your financial institution's computer), so multiple copies under the control of the legitimate account holder are allowed.

It would be fine if the devices had to be connected to the internet for the "card" to work, because they could sync up, but of course that's no good; I can think of a few ways around it while offline but nothing perfect. Definitely not an issue to only have it on one device, I don't think most people would be inconvenienced by that vs having copies...besides, you could always get multiple cards, if you really needed that.

 

[Tuscani01]

And they've also got a solution for reloading cards! You can just tap the info button on the card in your Wallet/Apple Pay app, and use one of the Apple Pay Credit/Debit cards on your device to transfer money to the transit card. This might provide for instant reloads on Presto, since the device holds the RFID/NFC "card" in memory it should, presumably, be able to update the balance for the card itself without needing to tap on a reader that has the pending load ready.

This is how the Starbucks App is reloaded through Apple Pay. You just tap the amount and use your finger print, and the value you selected is instantly loaded to the card.

Your post makes me so happy to hear! I already use Apple Pay for about 90% of my day to day purchases. Can't wait for Presto to join the list.

 

[WillTo]

If I take the bus to Eglinton Station and transfer to the subway, there is no gate because I just waltz on down to the subway platform.

But if I try to save time and exit the bus before it pulls into the bus terminal and tap on the Presto gate, does that count as a transfer?

 

[ShonTron]

If I take the bus to Eglinton Station and transfer to the subway, there is no gate because I just waltz on down to the subway platform.

But if I try to save time and exit the bus before it pulls into the bus terminal and tap on the Presto gate, does that count as a transfer?

Nope, you'll be dinged for another trip.

 

[steveintoronto]

If I take the bus to Eglinton Station and transfer to the subway, there is no gate because I just waltz on down to the subway platform.

But if I try to save time and exit the bus before it pulls into the bus terminal and tap on the Presto gate, does that count as a transfer?

You could flash a paper transfer to the subway fare collector, but he's not bound to accept it, unless there's a hold-up on the bus getting into the station.

It's still not completely clear, at least to me, when and where exactly a Presto transfer is accepted as a single fare. I always grab a paper transfer, since you never know when it will be necessary. My rule of thumb is never use your Presto card to transfer when you have a paper transfer, contrary to all the missives repeated and published. I've been burned too many times.

 

[WillTo]

You could flash a paper transfer to the subway fare collector, but he's not bound to accept it, unless there's a hold-up on the bus getting into the station.

At Eglinton the bus will sometimes go down Yonge and there is a stop right outside the automated entrance (no fare collector normally).
Lots of people with passes will hop off and head straight for the subway.

 

[steveintoronto]

At Eglinton the bus will sometimes go down Yonge and there is a stop right outside the automated entrance (no fare collector normally).
Lots of people with passes will hop off and head straight for the subway.

My sixth sense tingles. Check your Pesto transaction on-line if you've done that, and please post what you find.

Just re-reading what you posted:

Lots of people with passes

"Passes"...not Presto Cards?

 

[amnesiajune]

It's still not completely clear, at least to me, when and where exactly a Presto transfer is accepted as a single fare.

Subway-to-surface: Always

Subway-to-subway: Never

Surface-to-surface: Always

Surface-to-surface-to-surface: Never

Surface-to-subway: Only at valid transfer points.

 

[steveintoronto]

Subway-to-surface: Always

Subway-to-subway: Never

Surface-to-surface: Always

Surface-to-surface-to-surface: Never

Surface-to-subway: Only at valid transfer points.

You certainly have faith in mantras.

The TTC website begs to disagree:

[...]
If your journey involves a bus, you must get a transfer as your Proof-of-Payment (POP) in the following ways:

On a new streetcar

• Tap your PRESTO card on the card reader at any of the doors.
• Go over to the Fares and Transfers Machine near the centre doors and tap your card on the transfer area of the machine.
• Take your transfer from the machine and carry it with you if you are transferring to a bus.
• If you are transferring between streetcars, please tap each time you board. You will only be charged one fare. Standard TTC transfer rules apply. The two-hour transfer window on St. Clair is not available on a PRESTO card.

On a legacy streetcar

• Tap your PRESTO card on the card reader at the front door.
• Ask the operator for a transfer and carry it with you if you are transferring to a bus.
• If you are transferring between streetcars, please tap each time you board. You will only be charged one fare. Standard TTC transfer rules apply. The two-hour transfer window on St. Clair is not available on a PRESTO card.
  If you are transferring from streetcar to subway tap your PRESTO card on the card reader on the streetcar and tap on the card reader located on the turnstile or on top of the fare gate when you enter the station. You will only be charged once. Standard TTC transfer rules apply.

At a subway station

• Tap your PRESTO card on the card reader at the front of the turnstile or on top of the new fare gate.
• Go to the transfer machine inside the paid area near the entrance and take a transfer. Carry it with you during your journey.

On a bus

• Tap your PRESTO card on the card reader.
• Ask the operator for a paper transfer.

• https://www.ttc.ca/Fares_and_passes/PRESTO/Using_PRESTO_on_the_TTC.jsp

The plot thickens...and here's one of the thickening agents:

Transfers
Transfers are free and must be obtained where you pay your fare.
Valid at transfer points on day of issue for a one-way continuous trip - or as otherwise noted on the transfer.
If your trip involves connecting routes and requires a transfer, in subway stations you can get one from the automated transfer machine after you pay your fare and pass through the turnstiles. On buses and streetcars, ask the Operator for a transfer after you pay your fare. Note: Pass holders do not require, and are not entitled to receive, a transfer.

Walking Transfers
In some cases, two routes operate near each other but do not serve the same intersection and do not have any stops in common. In these cases, whI have too, sometimes there's no choice in the matter. Other times I've done a transfer from the subway onto a streetcar, and got dinged. Usually things work they way they're supposed, but it's like getting short-changed at your local supermarket, even if only occasionally, it's infuriating. If you knew you were going to have to pay twice, you would have walked or passed on it from the get go.ere specifically identified, customers can use paper transfers to transfer between routes at the walking transfer locations.

https://www.ttc.ca/Fares_and_passes/Fare_information/Transfers/index.jsp

"Walking Transfers"....Presto Zombies? I certainly wouldn't use my Presto card for any of those, or if forced to, then check the account on-line (after the obligatory time delay) to see if I got dinged (again).

One author on-line, who happens to moderate these forums and post a comment from time to time, was dinged, and had a token mailed to him when he phoned in a complaint.

But of course, according to some, these things don't happen...