Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

pstogios said:
I agree with you 200%!

I was just making these exact points to a friend of mine last night. Toronto is choking on its own success. Businesses don't want to locate in the 416. People don't want to come downtown to socialize or spend time there, because it is such a pain in the ass to get in and out. It is happening, and it is resulting in huge foregone economic benefits to Toronto. This is the #1 issue and has been for years.

But my point was that I have little faith in our various levels of government to actually correct the problem of congestion, even if they supposedly are aware of it. Politics is so ingrained our system and it has corrupted it. All our politicians truly care about is their re-election, and so they support transit expansion in their area no matter if that it not necessary (case in point--SSE). Those are billions of precious dollars that we just cannot afford to throw around and waste, but the politicians do it because they can.

We don't have a system that allows for corrective, disciplined, impartial, significant and proactive action when there is clear and pressing need, and this allows Toronto to continue on the path to choking itself.

That's why I doubt the DRL will be built in a timespan that will reverse this. We need it now, not 20, 25, 30 years from now, which is the pace at which the process is chugging along at.
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Metrolinx exists to help the municipalities focus. The provincial government would like municipal buy-in. It is; however, not required when push comes to shove.
 
Palma said:
give it a rest. This same governments has wasted billions that could have gone towards transit. They need to go
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What other parties are proposing to build more transit than the current government is building? As for waste, that was just as much of a problem with previous governments so it's a moot point as far as I'm concerned. The 407 deal alone wasted far more than all the Liberal scandals put together.
 
MisterF said:
What other parties are proposing to build more transit than the current government is building? As for waste, that was just as much of a problem with previous governments so it's a moot point as far as I'm concerned. The 407 deal alone wasted far more than all the Liberal scandals put together.
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because transit is the only concern this province has. You may be in love with transit but there are other concerns
 
Palma said:
because transit is the only concern this province has. You may be in love with transit but there are other concerns
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In love with transit? I must admit that's a pretty effective debate tactic if this is the reaction you're looking for. This thread is about transit and specifically the DRL, so of course that's what I'm limiting my posts to. If you want to have a larger political debate there's a politics section for that (I did get slightly off topic with the 407 reference).
 
Palma said:
give it a rest. This same governments has wasted billions that could have gone towards transit. They need to go
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I'll agree they need to go, but one thing I'm confused about is... shouldn't it not really matter in the grand scheme of things, considering we have Metrolinx in place (i.e a non-political Crown agency owned by the government of Ontario)? Wasn't the whole point of Metrolinx to see past politicization and get the job done regardless of what party is in power? If people are arguing that Ontario's transit planning will be sent back to the stone age if we toss the Wynne gov't, then by default aren't they also saying that the Prov Liberal gov't isn't as altruistic as one would believe. And that Metrolinx is overtly influenced by politicians and thus politically-motivated?

MisterF said:
What other parties are proposing to build more transit than the current government is building? As for waste, that was just as much of a problem with previous governments so it's a moot point as far as I'm concerned. The 407 deal alone wasted far more than all the Liberal scandals put together.
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Possibly. But the Hydro One sale is projected to have us lose $0.5bn/yr in net revenue, and leave us in a worsened fiscal position (as per the FAO). Compounded with the other boners they've pulled, is that really as bad as the PC's 407 99-year lease?
 
44 North said:
And that Metrolinx is overtly influenced by politicians and thus politically-motivated?
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Ultimately Metrolinx can only spend money it gets. Since they do not have a means of revenue creation other than farebox (and operations is currently heavily subsidized - nearly 50% subsidy in Q1 2016); they're about as independent from the province as TTC is from city council.
 
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44 North said:
I'll agree they need to go, but one thing I'm confused about is... shouldn't it not really matter in the grand scheme of things, considering we have Metrolinx in place (i.e a non-political Crown agency owned by the government of Ontario)? Wasn't the whole point of Metrolinx to see past politicization and get the job done regardless of what party is in power? If people are arguing that Ontario's transit planning will be sent back to the stone age if we toss the Wynne gov't, then by default aren't they also saying that the Prov Liberal gov't isn't as altruistic as one would believe. And that Metrolinx is overtly influenced by politicians and thus politically-motivated?
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But there's the golden rule: He who has the gold makes the rules. And as it stands right now, Metrolinx has little to no way to raise its own revenue, aside from GO. Until they're holding their own purse strings, anything they do is inherently political, because their funding is dependent on who is in power. They can make "independent decisions" all they want, but if there's no money behind those decisions, what good are they?
 
44 North said:
I'll agree they need to go, but one thing I'm confused about is... shouldn't it not really matter in the grand scheme of things, considering we have Metrolinx in place (i.e a non-political Crown agency owned by the government of Ontario)? Wasn't the whole point of Metrolinx to see past politicization and get the job done regardless of what party is in power? If people are arguing that Ontario's transit planning will be sent back to the stone age if we toss the Wynne gov't, then by default aren't they also saying that the Prov Liberal gov't isn't as altruistic as one would believe. And that Metrolinx is overtly influenced by politicians and thus politically-motivated?
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That was the point of Metrolinx. That was the point of Metrolinx's Investment Strategy.

But that point was crafted by Dalton McGuinty's government. And who undermined it? Kathleen Wynne.

When things go ass-side-up because of a change in government, next time a project's certainty is threatened by a lack of funding, if a project gets delayed because of political infighting, make sure you point the finger at the root of the cause.
 
44 North said:
I'll agree they need to go, but one thing I'm confused about is... shouldn't it not really matter in the grand scheme of things, considering we have Metrolinx in place (i.e a non-political Crown agency owned by the government of Ontario)? Wasn't the whole point of Metrolinx to see past politicization and get the job done regardless of what party is in power? If people are arguing that Ontario's transit planning will be sent back to the stone age if we toss the Wynne gov't, then by default aren't they also saying that the Prov Liberal gov't isn't as altruistic as one would believe. And that Metrolinx is overtly influenced by politicians and thus politically-motivated?
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Metrolinx is completely politically motivated. This shouldn't even be up to debate anymore. They're puppets of the provincial government. They're not any more altruistic than Wynne and the Liberal Party.
 
Ugh, and I thought there was an update to development on the DRL.

When can we expect any sort of progress on this file?
 
jje1000 said:
Ugh, and I thought there was an update to development on the DRL.

When can we expect any sort of progress on this file?
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It might be complete by 2050...if we're lucky enough to not have anymore asshole mayors from the suburbs during that time.
 
DonValleyRainbow said:
That was the point of Metrolinx. That was the point of Metrolinx's Investment Strategy.

But that point was crafted by Dalton McGuinty's government. And who undermined it? Kathleen Wynne.

When things go ass-side-up because of a change in government, next time a project's certainty is threatened by a lack of funding, if a project gets delayed because of political infighting, make sure you point the finger at the root of the cause.
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I point the finger at both premiers. The Eglinton MOU was a pretty blatant politicization of serious sums of money. Hard to believe that it's that easy: completely bypass council, democratic process, and simply sit down with the premier and Metrolinx to dictate the spending of $Billions. This is what Dalton said: “We have a memorandum of understanding signed, sealed and delivered. We’re going to act on the basis of that arrangement … we’re not going to deviate from that arrangement”.

jje1000 said:
Ugh, and I thought there was an update to development on the DRL.

When can we expect any sort of progress on this file?
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Same, was giddy when I saw this thread today. Metrolinx's next phase of YRNS is due *checks watch* half a year ago. But my hope is that the City's work is going forward full steam. There was an update on the City's site last week, should be something after the new year apparently:


October 11, 2016 Current Work - Fall 2016

At its meeting of July 12-14, 2016, City Council approved the Pape-Eastern-Queen alignment for the Relief Line, subject to the addtional work as specified below and authorized the Chief Planner and Executive Director, City Planning and the Chief Executive Officer, Toronto Transit Commission to:

a. work in partnership with Metrolinx to confirm station locations for optimal connections between the Relief Line and SmartTrack/Regional Express Rail, including future extensions of the Relief Line; and

b. undertake an additional assessment of an alignment west of Pape Avenue, starting immediately north of the GO tracks on Pape Avenue to south of Queen Street, with a station box at Queen Street and Carlaw Avenue, and:

1. prepare an Outreach Plan in consultation with the local Councillor to review these option(s) with stakeholders, including the General Manager, Economic Development and Culture, and the public, including local residents; and

2. bring back a recommendation to City Council, through the Executive Committee, prior to commencing the formal Transit Project Assessment Process; and

c. prepare the Environmental Project Report for the Relief Line and issue the Notice of Commencement for the Transit Project Assessment Process once ready to proceed.



This work is underway and a report to Executive Committee and City Council is anticipated in early 2017.​
 
You can't blame people for having a profound mistrust of Metrolinx. After all the announcements they have only produced one complete project, the UPX and it has been such a failure that it would make Mirabel blush.
 
They've completed UPX and Presto and fumbled on both of them, largely thanks to political interference from the government. They seem to be doing an okay job of managing the Crosstown, so far, although it is a year late.
 
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