11th
Senior Member
That means a party can technically kick all non-GTA, Ottawa ridings to the curb and still win a majority in the legislature. Future's looking great for Ontraio's two largest urban areas (not just on transit).
Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s
- Thread starter JasonParis
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TheTigerMaster
Superstar
I like to whip out this chart I made, displaying the medium growth scenarios of the Greater Toronto Area, Ontario and Quebec. 2024 is the year that GTA will become the majority of the province. By 2040, they'll be nearly 1 million more people living in Toronto than the rest of Ontario.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
The Conservatives & Ford Nation would want to gerrymander the wards/ridings to their favour. Meaning, keep the downtown wards/ridings large with large populations, with the suburbs small with smaller populations.
GenerationW
Senior Member
Unless you're making an accusation, who cares what they "would" do?
W. K. Lis
Superstar
TransitBart
Senior Member
I think this quite unlikely. The province gave $150 million for planning on June 1. That was to (I believe) bring the thing to a complete EA and shovel-ready stage. The feds have now chipped in so the Canada wordmark can appear on the construction signage. This project is very likely to proceed and the stars are aligning. The bigger question is - is it relief small - Osgoode to Pape - little "J" up to Science Centre, big "J" up to Don Mills or super "J" up to York Region?
Also - if you look at a map - why connecting Dundas West to downtown is somehow a lower priority excapes me. I was a west-ender for the first decades of my life, and had that been in place, I'd have seen Yonge/Blooe many fewer times. It will be demonstrably faster to get downtown from the east end than from the west without the western leg of this subway.
There are only so many streets you can dig up, engineers, and project planners available. My money is on as the Eglinton Crosstown construction (phase I at least) winds up in three years that this project becomes the next key transit construction focus in the city.
TransitBart
Senior Member
Two points:
1. You'd be amazed at how quickly politicians jump when voters start to line up consistently with a certain point of view.
2. Construction. Going back to the 1970s, Ontario Hydro (today's OPG) was building generation facilities left and right. At one point, they were building the large coal burning facility Nanticoke, the oil burning facility Lennox at Kingston, planning Wesleyville, Pickering A and B were under construction and Bruce A and B as well. After a slow start, there came to be a large contingent of experienced power engineers, project planners and a significant construction industry to support.
When (and if) the stars align so that one project begins to follow another: Spadina subway extension, Eglinton Crosstown, Finch West LRT, Line 2 to Scarborough Town Centre, Relief Line, Sheppard subway from McCowan to Downsview, Richmond Hill - then a large industry of experienced people (in the private sector and in government) will be able to bring projects more quickly together because they have accumulated experience.
If the projects are too far apart, the people re-deploy to other industries and the industry and institutional knowledge is lost.
pstogios
Senior Member
Why are you so sure the DRL phase I will be built in anything less than 15 years just because the province chipped in to pay for the EA? That action doesn't change the ridiculously long process we have in this city for public transit planning. I'd be surprised if the DRL "little J" is built in anything less than 20 years, let alone extensions beyond that which are obviously needed.
MisterF
Senior Member
Two reasons. One, a western relief line already exists - the University Line. You don't need to go to Yonge-Bloor at all if you're coming from the west. There's no eastern counterpart, so crowding is much worse coming from the east. The second reason is that Dundas West to downtown can be done just as effectively with RER. The rail lines line up pretty much perfectly in the west end, we just need to put them to proper use. In the east end a whole new line is needed to provide effective relief.
A western leg of the DRL could hook up with Bloor but it would be more about serving the west downtown neighbourhoods that won't have ready access to RER. That's needed for sure, but it's not as urgent as relief to the east end of the network.
TransitBart
Senior Member
Why? Because we are killing the goose that laid the golden egg. We are slowly throttling Toronto to death. No one can get around. Actually, the federal government and the provincial government are very concerned about this. Toronto city council (to some extent) has not woken up past speed bumps, and highly regulated food carts that the 44 of them are running North America's fourth largest city. Perhaps running it into the ground.
The good citizens of the GTHA and Toronto will be rioting in the streets long before fifteen years are up due to long commutes and lack of employment opportunities as employers leave, and the 'Buildings' portion of urbantoronto will be closed because are no new buildings because there is no way to get to any new buildings at all. New office investment will be in some other livable and affordable city. And we will all be much poorer.
I believe that nothing less is at stake in the transit discussion.
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W. K. Lis
Superstar
It would be better if the Crossways people allow for a connection between the TTC's Dundas West Station and UPX/GO's Bloor Station. It would be excellent if there was a transfer (even a discount transfer) between the TTC and UPX/GO.
See link.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
The University Line will be over capacity in a little more than 15 years, according to preliminary ridership projections. That means that it'll likely be over capacity before the first phase of the Relief Line is complete.
These projections don't speak to St. George capacity constraints, which I suspect will become an issue before the Univeristy Line goes over capacity in 15 years.
However, the eastern Relief Line up to Sheppard is a bigger concern.
BurlOak
Senior Member
I think Ford, and just about everyone else in the City, just want the Federal ridings duplicated. There is already process for balancing the ridings/wards, that has municipal input. Why have another process that just that just opens things up for more gerrymandering.
The reason Tory wants the status quo is that Council does not appear to want to implement the will of the majority.
pstogios
Senior Member
I agree with you 200%!
I was just making these exact points to a friend of mine last night. Toronto is choking on its own success. Businesses don't want to locate in the 416. People don't want to come downtown to socialize or spend time there, because it is such a pain in the ass to get in and out. It is happening, and it is resulting in huge foregone economic benefits to Toronto. This is the #1 issue and has been for years.
But my point was that I have little faith in our various levels of government to actually correct the problem of congestion, even if they supposedly are aware of it. Politics is so ingrained our system and it has corrupted it. All our politicians truly care about is their re-election, and so they support transit expansion in their area no matter if that it not necessary (case in point--SSE). Those are billions of precious dollars that we just cannot afford to throw around and waste, but the politicians do it because they can.
We don't have a system that allows for corrective, disciplined, impartial, significant and proactive action when there is clear and pressing need, and this allows Toronto to continue on the path to choking itself.
That's why I doubt the DRL will be built in a timespan that will reverse this. We need it now, not 20, 25, 30 years from now, which is the pace at which the process is chugging along at.
Palma
Senior Member
give it a rest. This same governments has wasted billions that could have gone towards transit. They need to go