Armour
Senior Member
Unfortunately they're not being used for the reason they were built.
It must be weird for owners to have sex in a former church.
|
|
|
Churches converted into condos: what does it mean?
- Thread starter Armour
- Start date
It must be weird for owners to have sex in a former church.
Lenser
Senior Member
Or quite a kick. Different strokes.
As for the churches no longer being used as churches, perhaps their respective religions failed to keep up with the times? You snooze, you lose. Old churches can be quite expensive to keep up when your congregation is steadily shrinking. I'm glad when I see one being converted, because it means they have a chance to live on for many more generations - how well depending on how skilful and elegant the restoration/conversion goes, of course.
Armour
Senior Member
I'll say this one thing and anyone can continue the conversation in a private message, if they'd like to:
Ah, so change the whole foundation of the church to meet transient trends? If the word of God could be changed by men to fit political/fashion sentiments of a given time, then it what good would it be? What would it stand for? It would be useless. What exactly would Christians be following if the message was always in flux? The scriptures are unchanging, for all time. God's word is final. God doesn't need to meet our expectations of what is right and wrong. It's unbelievable and shows tremendous arrogance for people to expect the church to change to be more in line with progressive views. If one doesn't like the church, then it is their right to ignore/reject it; but don't complain that it is "outdated" and ask for its teaching to be altered in a way that is more in line with your views. And more: don't threaten the livelihood of good people that merely see the world through a different lens than you.
The church is dwindling, not because of a case of "not keeping up with the times", but because the culture has been dominated by atheist, social liberals for the last 50 years. Over that course of time, people have been conditioned to view the church in a negative light through force-fed demagoguery via film (Hollywood), music, magazines, television, print, modern literature, etc. The notion that people are more educated now, thus they understand the bible as being contrived, is ridiculous. The general public has been dumbed down for decades (there is ample evidence everywhere that people have generally become less intelligent). If people are supposedly smarter than in the past, I wonder how many could pass the following 8th grade final exam from 1895. Most modern university students and grown adults would fail this test:
https://newrepublic.com/article/79470/1895-8th-grade-final-exam-i-couldnt-pass-it-could-you
Our education system is a joke compared to what it once was. It amazes me that people fall for the myth that the general public has a greater understanding of the world these days. If we're so sophisticated now, then how did we go from Beethoven and Mozart as the pinnacle of art/music, to the rubbish that is lionized today (The Weekend, Drake; seriously?)? Why are movies equally as bad? Why has television become so shallow and devoid of substance? If the culture were a game of limbo, 100 years ago the bar was set so high that we could walk underneath it, standing straight up. Now it is so low that to cross underneath it, one has to mirror Neo's (The Matrix) posture while dodging bullets.
I won't lump everyone together, but one has to be out of their mind to believe that people are generally smarter these days, and thus are better adapted to distinguish truth from myth. People have been taught what to believe and to accept things at face value, for decades. Critical thinking isn't taught in school/university anymore. The reason more people are becoming progressive in their views is because our society has shaped us to become this way and people have acquiesced because there basically is no alternative narrative for them to consider, that is present in the mainstream culture.
Christians are often called sheep by atheists (which isn't an insult, as Jesus referred to Himself as a shepherd), but I would say it is atheists (generally) that are the real sheep. They are the ones that have been pummeled into believing there is no God, via the aforementioned mediums above. Most people barely read theological/philosophical literature, so it's absurd to think most people are full of greater wisdom and understanding than in the past. Most people have an easier time to be told what to believe (because it is easier than learning things by yourself) and they don't want to break consensus. The church was successful for centuries, but we live in a much more global world now and it is easier to manipulate and persuade impressionable people in their formative years than ever before. This is why the church is becoming less important to people. And with that diminishing presence, our sense of community has been withered away, as we are no longer united with a common core of beliefs. We're more divided now than ever. I'm not sure how that is progress.
Forgive my rant. Back on topic.
Last edited:
Lenser
Senior Member
I perfectly understand why the mods of this fine place would not wish to have a discussion of the merits and pitfalls of religion derail this and other threads.
Last edited:
Towered
Senior Member
Thankfully so. That was hands down the most out of touch post I've seen on this forum in years.
DSC
Superstar
Member Bio
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2008
- Messages
- 18,668
- Reaction score
- 25,490
- Location
- St Lawrence Market Area
... and, god knows, we have seen quite a few!
Soop
Active Member
Certainly better for the city to have property tax payers occupying the space.
kbdid
Senior Member
Ah, pining for the "good old days' of Toronto the Good, when you would be judged for and have your social circle depend on which church you attended (or didn't), and the Orange Parade was a BIG thing...
I see the United Church at the corner of High Park and Annette has been purchased and the developers are preparing a proposal to knock down the office/education portion of the building.
I see the United Church at the corner of High Park and Annette has been purchased and the developers are preparing a proposal to knock down the office/education portion of the building.
animatronic
Senior Member
This is an architecture forum, so...
As mainline church attendance craters, there is certainly an issue about how to preserve the city's best architectural examples. Most of the existing church stock is unmemorable and can safely disappear, but there are some really impressive structures out there that should be kept. In Quebec there has been a concerted effort to save the buildings as public spaces - such as turning them into community centres, concert halls or libraries. In some cases they make the building a secular public space but keep the altar etc... behind a curtain so it can still be used as a church on weekends. That's not the worst idea. It could also be neat to see some of the buildings converted to mosques or temples like you see in Spain and Turkey (or even at Summerhill).
Condo conversions aren't the worst option, but now is probably the time to head off any trends towards facadism or exclusively private uses for those few structures that deserve better.
As mainline church attendance craters, there is certainly an issue about how to preserve the city's best architectural examples. Most of the existing church stock is unmemorable and can safely disappear, but there are some really impressive structures out there that should be kept. In Quebec there has been a concerted effort to save the buildings as public spaces - such as turning them into community centres, concert halls or libraries. In some cases they make the building a secular public space but keep the altar etc... behind a curtain so it can still be used as a church on weekends. That's not the worst idea. It could also be neat to see some of the buildings converted to mosques or temples like you see in Spain and Turkey (or even at Summerhill).
Condo conversions aren't the worst option, but now is probably the time to head off any trends towards facadism or exclusively private uses for those few structures that deserve better.
the lemur
Senior Member
It's not that people are dumber than they were in past generations, or even smarter. People are more likely to have some education, enough to realize the Bible makes no sense, plus they have access to more verified/verifiable sources of information than just the clergy telling them the Bible tells them so, therefore it must be true. Complaining about 'atheist social liberals' and the supposedly poor quality of popular culture (as if there weren't trashy books and songs in the old days) is a huge red herring.
The 1895 exam trope merely illustrates that over 100 years ago people were expected to learn by rote a fairly limited knowledge set without necessarily understanding it AND they didn't do all that well either.
http://www.snopes.com/language/document/1895exam.asp
AndreaPalladio
Senior Member
"I do not see plays, because I can nap at home for free. And I don't see movies 'cause they're trash, and they got nothin' but naked people in 'em! And I don't read books, 'cause if they're any good, they're gonna make 'em into a miniseries." Ouiser Boudreaux, Steel Magnolias, 1989.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Seen some old movie theatres being converted into churches.
Lenser
Senior Member
Indeed. Montreal, for instance, is full of older churches - some more glorious and historically noteworthy than others, but it seems that many of them have been usefully repurposed. Churches are part of our historical and cultural legacy and I'm quite happy to see them live on, albeit in different incarnations. Personally, I like a healthy mix of historical periods in the built form of our city.
Armour
Senior Member
the lemur
Senior Member
The other problem with the claim that modern people are dumb for not being able to pass a test from 1895 is that people were taught very different things then, some of which is now inaccurate and not academically rigorous (the linguistics portion of those tests is particularly outdated).