Churches converted into condos: what does it mean?

[wild goose chase]

Annnnnnnd another thread lost to the worship of Steve Jobs and the Apple store...

I guess since we're on the topic of religion, it's just hard to resist the temptation of the "Apple", which after all is the forbidden fruit.

Toronto already has a gigantic cathedral: the Rogers Centre.

Sports are a religion to many people these days. They have huge paying crowds, loyal fanaticism, superstitions, tradition, and yes, rivalries and dogmatism. Yet, sports are ever-evolving. FIFA and the IOC are to sports as the Holy See is to Catholicism or Mecca is to Islam.

The Cult of Steve Jobs is becoming a major religion as well (despite him being Buddhist). The downtown shrine of Steve Jobs is a fire hazard and needs to be enlarged.

The same can be said for Zuckerberg (despite being an atheist). George Orwell correctly predicted the rise of Big Brother in 1984 (and it happens that Zuckerberg was born on that year).

LOL! The conversation in this thread is pretty amusing...

 

[Palma]

... and, god knows, we have seen quite a few!

guess you would never be able to pass that gr 8 final exam. Everyone knows of the dumbing down of society and the inflation of grades. I worl in a school and daw transcripts from the 1960's Aver grade was low 60's. You really think people were dumber than. No, but standards have decreased. That is why universities keep increasing their entrance marks. Even Tory made a comment when he was talk show host on 1010 that in the 1960's an Ontario scholar was a student getting marls in the 60's (and not high either).

 

[Palma]

It's not that people are dumber than they were in past generations, or even smarter. People are more likely to have some education, enough to realize the Bible makes no sense, plus they have access to more verified/verifiable sources of information than just the clergy telling them the Bible tells them so, therefore it must be true. Complaining about 'atheist social liberals' and the supposedly poor quality of popular culture (as if there weren't trashy books and songs in the old days) is a huge red herring.

The 1895 exam trope merely illustrates that over 100 years ago people were expected to learn by rote a fairly limited knowledge set without necessarily understanding it AND they didn't do all that well either.

http://www.snopes.com/language/document/1895exam.asp

people are dumber and you proved it by making this statement

 

[the lemur]

people are dumber and you proved it by making this statement

Part of the problem is that we keep conflating 'education' (or 'ability to pass tests based on a set curriculum') with 'intelligence' when they aren't necessarily always the same thing.

We don't even know what the pass rates were for those grade 8 exams in 1895.

 

[animatronic]

Part of the problem is that we keep conflating 'education' (or 'ability to pass tests based on a set curriculum') with 'intelligence' when they aren't necessarily always the same thing.

We don't even know what the pass rates were for those grade 8 exams in 1895.

And what % of kids even made it to grade 8.

This is a remarkably useless thread...

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

It's like the "Are you smarter than a 5th grader" documentary was never filmed!

On topic: an interesting case study on church conversion vs. new build is happening on Jones right now. A friend who has seen both projects (St. Leslieville and the one next door) raved about the conversion. Much funkier space. Both are pretty expensive, though.

ETA: http://www.stleslieville.com is the website.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

And another one -- the church at Dewhurst and Danforth has signs up touting a conversion to a 4 story big condo. I'd say they're reaching -- it could be a great three story building, but adding the floor is going to make it look kind of weird. (Haven't seen drawings, though.)

 

[King of Kensington]

Are most of the conversions from the old WASP mainline congregations (Anglican, United and Presbyterian)?

 

[urbandreamer]

Bloordale United Church is gorgeous and would make a great condo conversion.

One thing I find interesting about Toronto people I meet is their near universal hatred of all things WASPy. It's fun to pretend I can relate....

On topic: sometimes the truth hurts. Armour is right about disintegration of community amongst the former Prods. I sometimes wish a new religion could be invented that tolerated all peoples while erasing their racist/cultural dogmas.

 

[Johnny Au]

I sometimes wish a new religion could be invented that tolerated all peoples while erasing their racist/cultural dogmas.

It's called humanism, primarily the secular version. Unfortunately, some religious people use the term "secular humanism" simply to mean "an ideology I don't like."

 

[NorthYorkEd]

It's called humanism, primarily the secular version. Unfortunately, some religious people use the term "secular humanism" simply to mean "an ideology I don't like."

Anyone interested in secular humanism can read these affirmations/statements of principles:

https://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php/12

I used to be fairly religious. Started questioning in my teens, but never received a satisfactory response (of course, as my questions were directed to believers and religious authorities).

Took a few religious studies courses in university, learned about common mythology, critical thinking, Joseph Campbell, etc. Started to see things differently.

Found "Farewell to God" by Charles Templeton while browsing a bookstore in Vancouver. Looked into Buddhism for a bit (didn't everyone?). Discovered humanism. Finally felt like the journey towards freedom from religion was over.

Now I am just in a state of neutral apathy, not concerning myself at all with religious or church matters unless it crosses my path. I have no ability to tolerate or comprehend the religious mind, so I just leave it alone.

 

[pman]

The United Church of Canada is the kind of post-Christian, secular humanist institution that would be attractive for people uncomfortable with traditional religion and old-stock (to borrow a québécois phrase) Ontario WASP culture. Nevertheless, it seems to be dying. Maybe they aren't getting their message out.

 

[King of Kensington]

Post-Christian??? Isn't the UCC hierarchy trying to remove an atheist minister? Or is your point that there's where the UCC is headed?

The closest religious group I can think of in terms of secular humanists are the Unitarians, who began as Protestants but no longer see themselves as Christians.

I've also met several Jews that belong to Reform or Reconstructionist congregations who are atheists or agnostics. But they are as much of a cultural group as a religion, and I don't think the same can't be said for Protestants.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The United Church of Canada is the kind of post-Christian, secular humanist institution that would be attractive for people uncomfortable with traditional religion and old-stock (to borrow a québécois phrase) Ontario WASP culture. Nevertheless, it seems to be dying. Maybe they aren't getting their message out.

As KoK mentioned, UU might fit that description better.

AoD

 

[Transportfan]

Thankfully so. That was hands down the most out of touch post I've seen on this forum in years.

He's right though. His response to Lenser's comment that churches are dying because they didn't keep up with the times is spot on. It's the "progressive" mainline churches (which make up almost all of the churches downtown) that are dying, not the fundamentalist ones.