Your experiences with the 2010 Museum subway diversion (May 22–25, Aug 14-15)

[joeclark]

We’ve already mentioned this event in a previous thread: This weekend, Bloor trains will interrupt their journeys at Museum station so that track work can be carried out at Bay.

The last time this happened it was chaos and a total wayfinding disaster. That was three years ago, and you’d think the TTC would have learned something. I have reason to believe they’ll prove they did not, in fact, learn anything, but I’m opening this thread so everyone can post their own experiences and impressions.

 

[Tuscani01]

It wouldn't have been a wayfinding disaster if people actually paid attention. The bypass was announced on all trains, there were signs in all stations before the change, and there was staff on the museum platform to guide people.

It was the people listening to their ipods or just not listening who were the lost ones in the end.

 

[gweed123]

It wouldn't have been a wayfinding disaster if people actually paid attention. The bypass was announced on all trains, there were signs in all stations before the change, and there was staff on the museum platform to guide people.

It was the people listening to their ipods or just not listening who were the lost ones in the end.

I was coming back from Pearson via subway (with all my luggage of course). The line moved pretty well up until about Ossington, then it was stop and go, and once it hit Bathurst we sat in the station for a good 15 minutes before moving again. Overall, a pretty shitty experience. I got fed up at Spadina, so I transferred to the YUS platform, and stayed on that train until Dundas stn. Of course, it took another 20 mins or so to get from Spadina to Museum. Once I passed Museum though, it was fine.

I may just brave it this weekend though, just to get a gimpse of Lower Bay. I finish work, so I may take the subway to Bloor, then transfer to B-D, go through Lower Bay, get to Museum, and then take a YUS from there.

 

[joeclark]

Everybody was functionally deaf on that platform

The bypass was announced on all trains… and there was staff on the museum platform to guide people. It was the people listening to their ipods or just not listening who were the lost ones in the end.

Deaf people had no way to determine which train was which except to guess at which platform to use and look for the destination sign, which they already knew lied to them because they had just gotten off a train claiming to go to Kipling or Kennedy.

Deaf people are a tiny minority, you say? True, except (a) they have to be accommodated and (b) everybody was functionally deaf, what with twice as many trains zooming into the station and unending announcements shouted unintelligibly into bullhorns, as though this were 1967. Actually, that’s the TTC’s problem in a nutshell.

Still think everybody could just have “listened†for instructions?

 

[Chinese Jamaican Bloke]

Deaf people had no way to determine which train was which except to guess at which platform to use and look for the destination sign, which they already knew lied to them because they had just gotten off a train claiming to go to Kipling or Kennedy.

Deaf people are a tiny minority, you say? True, except (a) they have to be accommodated and (b) everybody was functionally deaf, what with twice as many trains zooming into the station and unending announcements shouted unintelligibly into bullhorns, as though this were 1967. Actually, that’s the TTC’s problem in a nutshell.

Still think everybody could just have “listened” for instructions?

they can always read the announcments on the TTC website

 

[joeclark]

You must be new here.

they can always read the announcments on the TTC website

Sure. I’ll load that on my iTouch while I’m under 40 feet of earth and tile and find out which of the two trains on either platform is the one I want.

 

[LowerBay]

BD Signage Sucked ... even in '66!

Joe -- I'm old enough to comment on subway signage issues. I know you're a fan of the old BD signs in that Leave-it-to-Beaver-ish '50s font, but the truth is that even those signs sucked. When it comes to signage, the TTC could never get it right. I know this post is about the current Y diversion, but let me explain some issues related to the original routing in '66, the signage they used back then, and the endless confusion it caused for passengers during the line's first week ...

When the BD subway opened, I remember that the maps in all the cars showed the YU and BD lines as *SEPARATE* routes, even though BD operated as integrated branches of YU for the first few months. Once you were in the system, there was no indication of the exact routing of any train in any station. This was well-advertised in all the papers the day before, but there were no system maps once you were inside a station, and the trains themselves showed separate lines (probably because the TTC knew that they would not continue the service pattern after 6 months and didn't want to bother replacing them all later on).

Even worse, trains bound for the Y from BD were signed EGLINTON, but the overhead station signs would flip to say DOWNTOWN. This caused confusion, so the trains were later changed to display EGLINTON VIA DOWNTOWN. Of course, this sign was wrong after the train passed downtown and was heading north on Yonge, but if you're the TTC, who cares?

Next ... at the Keele and Woodbine terminals, there were two display signs at the mezzanine levels that would say ...

PLATFORM 1 ... either DOWNTOWN or KEELE/WOODBINE
PLATFORM 2 ... same

BUT, if you were heading to a station before the Y, you couldn't tell which train was leaving next (either train would take you to your destination but you had to guess -- remember, we're on the mezzanine here so we can't see the trains). To solve this problem, later on the signs at Warden and Islington were changed so that they could read ...

1ST TRAIN ... WARDEN ->
2ND TRAIN ... <- DOWNTOWN

but by then, integration was dropped. Also, at the Keele/Woodbine terminals the NEXT TRAIN overhead signs were revised to say THIS TRAIN because people thought the destination applied to the next train, and not the one that was sitting at the platform.

Bay and St. George had a similar problem. There were lightable arrows on directional signs to tell passengers which platform would receive the next eastbound train (at Bay) or westbound train (at St. George), since the arrivals usually, but not always, alternated between levels, but often the displays were blank for extended periods of time when no trains were in the vicinity of the station -- so we had to wait on the upper platform and keep checking the display.

I also rode the last diversion in '07, and, compared to '66, I thought it was signed quite well ... a breeze. Let's hope it goes smoothly this weekend.

Oh yeah, delays. We had tons of them in the early days, but not in the morning as I recall. Morning ran fine, afternoon was a disaster as the headways changed and more trains were fed into the system from Greenwood. At least that's how I remember it.

 

[Chuck]

The whole operation is not that difficult to understand, it's just that Torontonians aren't used to different subway routes using the same track. It would help if the route name and destination was provided beside the train doors like in New York, but obviously this isn't necessary 99% of the time so no such hardware is provided.

 

[RedRocket191]

Deaf people had no way to determine which train was which except to guess at which platform to use and look for the destination sign, which they already knew lied to them because they had just gotten off a train claiming to go to Kipling or Kennedy.

Deaf people are a tiny minority, you say? True, except (a) they have to be accommodated and (b) everybody was functionally deaf, what with twice as many trains zooming into the station and unending announcements shouted unintelligibly into bullhorns, as though this were 1967. Actually, that’s the TTC’s problem in a nutshell.

Still think everybody could just have “listened” for instructions?

You must be new here.



Sure. I’ll load that on my iTouch while I’m under 40 feet of earth and tile and find out which of the two trains on either platform is the one I want.

So what do you propose? We're all listening / reading...

 

[wyliepoon]

I've never been in this situation, but after reading some of your frustration, maybe having people with colour-coded signs and T-shirts like this at the Museum station platform might work...

 

[EnviroTO]

Some people aren't that well versed in TTC routings to begin with. They have a routine and when a wrench is thrown into their plans they are clueless. In the past week there has been two "passenger injuries at track level" requiring sections of the system to go off line. Rather than take an alternate route (with most routes running east-west or north-south there are a number of alternatives) people clamor aboard limited service replacing shuttle buses. Let me tell you this basic fact... buses cannot handle the capacity of subways. You are better off planning a route far from the problem. For example if service is out from Pape to St.George your best option is to get on a surface route heading south BEFORE arriving at Pape and transfer to cars on Gerrard or Queen. If service is out Bloor to Union then get on the surface route west to the University line well before arriving at Bloor (if rush hour) or take the Bloor line to the University line. What might make things easier is if the subway maps in the system were dynamic and sections out of service became unlit, and if one of the large advertisements near subway doors and on each platform were a system map.

 

[Jimbits]

Here's a tweet from someone who was at Museum station: http://twitter.com/taimurmohammad/statuses/14498976398
and the photo: http://tweetphoto.com/23477240
I don't agree with his description of ghetto, though. But yes, there seem to be visual aids.

EnviroTO, you're right in that people don't break from routines. Unfortunately, for those without knowledge of how the city is laid out, they'll always resort to waiting for shuttle buses that'll be packed. The most effective way to get people to use alternate routes is probably to fail to provide a shuttle bus at all, but that'll inconvenience those who can't use an alternate route.

Hopefully with the sheer number of staff on hand, people can ask for help and won't get lost. But I'm sure that it's slow going, and people will be caught off guard.

 

[LowerBay]

Diversion was well signed and announced this time around.

Talked to two TTC employees and they said the TTC is so impressed with service conditions through the Y that they intend to use it again this summer for additional track work on the main line. They also mentioned that, given the number of passengers they're carrying today vs. 1966, the TTC is giving serious thought to using the Y for some kind of limited revenue service in the future.

 

[EnviroTO]

That makes no sense. Yes, when they are doing construction it makes sense but there is no way using the Y is more efficient than normal operations and there is no value in some kind of limited revenue service through lower Bay. Using the Y reduces capacity because Museum is a line station with no additional tracks to take more capacity. As much as someone with a nickname of LowerBay might like to see it there is not much chance of lower Bay station seeing revenue service outside of construction periods in our life time. Only a completely new line passing through the area could make good use of it.

 

[LowerBay]

That makes no sense. Yes, when they are doing construction it makes sense but there is no way using the Y is more efficient than normal operations and there is no value in some kind of limited revenue service through lower Bay. Using the Y reduces capacity because Museum is a line station with no additional tracks to take more capacity. As much as someone with a nickname of LowerBay might like to see it there is not much chance of lower Bay station seeing revenue service outside of construction periods in our life time. Only a completely new line passing through the area could make good use of it.

I'm just telling you what they told me. They would not reopen Lower Bay -- they would just use the tracks through it to ferry passengers between lines. It never ceases to amaze me how stupid and arrogant some people on this board really are. Before you open your mouth, you should realize that they could not possibly build a new line down there to make use of it. It's an interlocking.