YRT/Viva Construction Thread (Rapidways, Terminals)

[narduch]

It's not a useless stop when you consider that interim/final buildout of Vaughan Metropolitan Centre. Also, the stop distance is greater than that of the Vivastations at West Beaver Creek and Leslie. If it were up to me, I would have added an additional stop on the east side of Jane St.

At the pace of development it may not be needed for 10 years.

 

[innsertnamehere]

VMC is developing quite quickly.

And in infrastructure terms, 10 years is very little. They are planning to build the 400 off ramp extension next year.. Development will surely follow.

 

[narduch]

I don't recall any developments near this station thought. Not yet at least.

 

[Northern Light]

Neutrino gets this exactly right. I'm a seasoned cyclist, albeit for good reason, I'm 'losing my nerve' on roads, and this is one of the most dangerous and misleading practices in Ontario for cyclists. Many cyclists see this, and presume it's safe since they 'have the right of way' (which they do if they continue to travel straight in their lane) but the HTA and reality are totally at odds on this, even on municipal roads, let alone arterial or highway.

Just reading Neutrino's description ("pilot project" or not @Leo_Chan ) galvanizes every sixth sense I have (seven with inflation). I'm not a great fan of 'greening' lanes except where necessary, and to make them stand out. This is one instance where every effort to make cyclist r-o-w clear to all concerned must be made. There's many instances of highway on and off ramps where I just dismount and cross on foot to be able to clearly see what's on-coming. It's just not worth the risk. And I can do 100 km jaunts in a day (albeit I'm in late sixties now, and slowing down a bit), just off on a 50 km one now to stay pumped.

Btw: I've done my share of Hwy #7 riding in years past. God knows what I was thinking, just got stuck on it and bulled ahead. Even if improved, Hwy #7 just isn't worth it if alternative parallel routes can be found. I read of cyclists getting whacked on #7 every year by cycling the pathetic one foot space the Province provides to the right of the curb lane edge marking line. The challenge is to find back-roads that are a joy to ride, even if they're hard packed gravel (lots of clay content, loose gravel is almost impossible). Takes a little longer, but I'll take quality over quantity any day. And not having to check over your shoulder every ten seconds.

While not practical everywhere, there really needs to be a concerted push, particularly in urban/suburban areas w/higher numbers of pedestrians and cyclists and higher traffic volumes as well, to redesign our highway on/off ramp system.

The use of acceleration/deceleration lanes that meet roads without a traffic light or other traffic control is simply dangerous.

Take a gander up Victoria Park Avenue from the south where an acceleration lane for 401 EB begins a good 2 blocks ahead, and encourages, by design cars to exceed 80km/ph before even beginning the turn east.

Meanwhile, pedestrians are told to cross this ramp with no traffic control of any kind, excepting 2 white lines on the pavement.

This is profoundly insensible.

Whether for pedestrians or cyclists we need to shift to right-on/left on, right/left off for highways with traffic-controlled intersections.

Where this isn't feasible due to lack of space, other options may need to be explored, but its workable at many interchanges.

Alterations like these should be part of Vision Zero as well.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

Del Duca is now running for York Region Chair. He might still get to go to the ribbon-cutting!

He does love a good ribbon cutting and YR chair will certainly help him keep getting his fix more than he'd ever get as a backbench MPP, even if he'd kept his seat. He's probably already picked his socks for the YNSE construction start AND opening.

VMC is developing quite quickly.

And in infrastructure terms, 10 years is very little. They are planning to build the 400 off ramp extension next year.. Development will surely follow.

Yeah, as we've discussed on other threads, VMC development is AHEAD of the planned pace, which is why WalMart is already looking to move out and SmartCentres is working to accommodate them.

The reason there hasn't been development AT the station site is, you know, because they were building the station until awful recently.

As for cycling, there's no question the current lanes are a mixed blessing. I see them as kind of a loss-leader for the overall urbanization of the corridor. They show YR is at least trying to get cycling routes as part of "complete streets" and while some stretches of the road will always be very highway-like, in 20 years things will be different and we'll be happy they're there. I know it's not a strict apples-apples comparison but the alternative is trying to shoehorn lanes in after the fact, like what's happening along Yonge in North York Centre. If they'd just done it in 1990, everyone would be long since used to them by now. Now it's almost like they just waited too long and the overall vision is getting compromised.

 

[narduch]

He does love a good ribbon cutting and YR chair will certainly help him keep getting his fix more than he'd ever get as a backbench MPP, even if he'd kept his seat. He's probably already picked his socks for the YNSE construction start AND opening.



Yeah, as we've discussed on other threads, VMC development is AHEAD of the planned pace, which is why WalMart is already looking to move out and SmartCentres is working to accommodate them.

The reason there hasn't been development AT the station site is, you know, because they were building the station until awful recently.

As for cycling, there's no question the current lanes are a mixed blessing. I see them as kind of a loss-leader for the overall urbanization of the corridor. They show YR is at least trying to get cycling routes as part of "complete streets" and while some stretches of the road will always be very highway-like, in 20 years things will be different and we'll be happy they're there. I know it's not a strict apples-apples comparison but the alternative is trying to shoehorn lanes in after the fact, like what's happening along Yonge in North York Centre. If they'd just done it in 1990, everyone would be long since used to them by now. Now it's almost like they just waited too long and the overall vision is getting compromised.

I was asking specifically about 'Commerce' Station on the BRT network. It appears it will be almost useless for the next 10 years at least. I don't think there is even any developments slated for close to that station yet.

Speaking of the Walmart relocation, I noticed that the Kumon name has come off their building. Doesn't look like there has been any other demo yet though.

 

[Leo_Chan]

He does love a good ribbon cutting and YR chair will certainly help him keep getting his fix more than he'd ever get as a backbench MPP, even if he'd kept his seat. He's probably already picked his socks for the YNSE construction start AND opening.



Yeah, as we've discussed on other threads, VMC development is AHEAD of the planned pace, which is why WalMart is already looking to move out and SmartCentres is working to accommodate them.

The reason there hasn't been development AT the station site is, you know, because they were building the station until awful recently.

As for cycling, there's no question the current lanes are a mixed blessing. I see them as kind of a loss-leader for the overall urbanization of the corridor. They show YR is at least trying to get cycling routes as part of "complete streets" and while some stretches of the road will always be very highway-like, in 20 years things will be different and we'll be happy they're there. I know it's not a strict apples-apples comparison but the alternative is trying to shoehorn lanes in after the fact, like what's happening along Yonge in North York Centre. If they'd just done it in 1990, everyone would be long since used to them by now. Now it's almost like they just waited too long and the overall vision is getting compromised.

As you mentioned, the cycling facilities are only just coming in. This probably fits better in the VMC Neighbourhood Node page, but here's the proposed VMC cycling infrastructure from here:

One thing to point out are the existing bike lanes on Highway 7 in Vaughan (similarly with Richmond Hill and Markham) are different from those that they plan to implement, which will be raised cycle tracks similar to those in Highway 7 between Town Centre and Sciberras, which were completed late last year. I hope they reconfigure the lanes to tracks in order for a more seamless "crosstown" ride.

Highway 400 bridge multi-use path and raised bike lanes example from here:

 

[steveintoronto]

While not practical everywhere, there really needs to be a concerted push, particularly in urban/suburban areas w/higher numbers of pedestrians and cyclists and higher traffic volumes as well, to redesign our highway on/off ramp system.

The use of acceleration/deceleration lanes that meet roads without a traffic light or other traffic control is simply dangerous. Guelph tried this model on University

Take a gander up Victoria Park Avenue from the south where an acceleration lane for 401 EB begins a good 2 blocks ahead, and encourages, by design cars to exceed 80km/ph before even beginning the turn east.

Meanwhile, pedestrians are told to cross this ramp with no traffic control of any kind, excepting 2 white lines on the pavement.

This is profoundly insensible.

Whether for pedestrians or cyclists we need to shift to right-on/left on, right/left off for highways with traffic-controlled intersections.

Where this isn't feasible due to lack of space, other options may need to be explored, but its workable at many interchanges.

Alterations like these should be part of Vision Zero as well.

You make the case exquisitely. "Acceleration lanes" exactly captures the dilemma. And the vast majority of motorists (and cyclists!) fail to indicate their turn when entering those lanes. As a cyclist, I find it necessary to signal I'm *not* turning right, ambiguous, but since almost every motorist presumes you're headed onto a #4xx Highway (WTF?) it's necessary to point out the obvious to them. It's a deadly dangerous game.

I'm sorry to go against well-intended posters, but this depicts a very dangerous situation *more dangerous* in ways, than just sharing the road. Why? Because those cyclists are sitting ducks with absolutely no protection, no idea what's coming up behind them, and a very false sense of safety. I can tell just looking at their body English they're almost or completely unaware of the dangers.

Just ask a Dane of Nederalander what this picture represents. Fail! Big Time. At least give them a concrete barrier. Not every motorist, but I'd say for the sake of argument one in ten will pull into that lane with no sense of consequence, and in some cases, with a sense of entitlement.

These types of lanes have been proven killers time and again in Ontario.

I don't know the latest iteration of this in Guelph, but they had some very serious accidents on this stretch, and in this pic, they've actually removed the 'cycle' symbols:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.5237...4!1sikBz07dBLZVGh9GEwEdoNg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I'll try and find the news stories behind it and post.

 

[Dan416]

While not practical everywhere, there really needs to be a concerted push, particularly in urban/suburban areas w/higher numbers of pedestrians and cyclists and higher traffic volumes as well, to redesign our highway on/off ramp system.

The use of acceleration/deceleration lanes that meet roads without a traffic light or other traffic control is simply dangerous.

Take a gander up Victoria Park Avenue from the south where an acceleration lane for 401 EB begins a good 2 blocks ahead, and encourages, by design cars to exceed 80km/ph before even beginning the turn east.

Meanwhile, pedestrians are told to cross this ramp with no traffic control of any kind, excepting 2 white lines on the pavement.

This is profoundly insensible.

Whether for pedestrians or cyclists we need to shift to right-on/left on, right/left off for highways with traffic-controlled intersections.

Where this isn't feasible due to lack of space, other options may need to be explored, but its workable at many interchanges.

Alterations like these should be part of Vision Zero as well.

I am confused by your post, so I checked Vic Park from the south up to 401 EB. I do not see an acceleration lane beginning 2 blocks ahead. I do see a 3rd lane that starts, but no acceleration lane. The acceleration lane starts at the normal place on a regular highway interchange.

Maybe I misunderstood?

 

[Northern Light]

You make the case exquisitely. "Acceleration lanes" exactly captures the dilemma. And the vast majority of motorists (and cyclists!) fail to indicate their turn when entering those lanes. As a cyclist, I find it necessary to signal I'm *not* turning right, ambiguous, but since almost every motorist presumes you're headed onto a #4xx Highway (WTF?) it's necessary to point out the obvious to them. It's a deadly dangerous game.

View attachment 149608

I'm sorry to go against well-intended posters, but this depicts a very dangerous situation *more dangerous* in ways, than just sharing the road. Why? Because those cyclists are sitting ducks with absolutely no protection, no idea what's coming up behind them, and a very false sense of safety. I can tell just looking at their body English they're almost or completely unaware of the dangers.

Just ask a Dane of Nederalander what this picture represents. Fail! Big Time. At least give them a concrete barrier. Not every motorist, but I'd say for the sake of argument one in ten will pull into that lane with no sense of consequence, and in some cases, with a sense of entitlement.

These types of lanes have been proven killers time and again in Ontario.

I don't know the latest iteration of this in Guelph, but they had some very serious accidents on this stretch, and in this pic, they've actually removed the 'cycle' symbols:

View attachment 149609

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.5237...4!1sikBz07dBLZVGh9GEwEdoNg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I'll try and find the news stories behind it and post.

Where there isn't room for full physical separation, at least in an ideal way (planters, boulevards etc.), I've often wondered about the value of rumble-stripping the solid white line portions of a bike lane.

(particularly for the non-raised variety, but for a subtle raise and shown above, it could be done, in theory, as well).

I think the 'cue' to a motorist that you don't belong here would be much stronger than the merely painted line, and also wouldn't fade, at least in the same way, if not painted every year or two.

Flexiposts also have their place, though I think Toronto had erred in placing them too far apart where used.

 

[steveintoronto]

Where there isn't room for full physical separation, at least in an ideal way (planters, boulevards etc.), I've often wondered about the value of rumble-stripping the solid white line portions of a bike lane.

The irony of the situation shown in the pic I copied and posted is that YR does exactly that between the cycle and pedestrian paths with neo cobblestones. It illustrates how skewed their priorities are.

 

[amnesiajune]

I drove along Hwy 7 today from Leslie to MS Hospital. They installed these flimsy, awful little flexiposts along the bike lane in the Rodick area. I shuddered at the bike lanes running past highway on-ramps. Certainly, the transformed sections of highway 7 look pretty, but feel kind of useless from the perspective of non-car transport.

I gotta say this again - the bike lanes on Highway 7 are great. I used them every day for a couple of summers, and felt a lot safer than I do on most bike lanes downtown. Cars are driving faster, but because of that you never end up in anyone's blind spot and it's a lot safer than streets where bikes and cars are driving at the same speed - bikes are a lot more visible!

 

[steveintoronto]

I gotta say this again - the bike lanes on Highway 7 are great. I used them every day for a couple of summers, and felt a lot safer than I do on most bike lanes downtown. Cars are driving faster, but because of that you never end up in anyone's blind spot and it's a lot safer than streets where bikes and cars are driving at the same speed - bikes are a lot more visible!

"Cars are driving faster, but because of that you never end up in anyone's blind spot"...errr...OK. You've never driven truck for a living, have you?
Well even York Region doesn't claim what you do, which give me cause to believe you have a false sense of safety:

You’re not going to use them for a relaxing Sunday ride, but bike lanes are coming soon to Hwy. 7,

As Viva’s bus lanes go in, so too will lanes for cyclists, but the region’s busiest road won’t turn into a quiet Amsterdam street.

“We’d love nothing better than to build a facility on our roadways to accommodate every kind of cyclist, but we don’t think that’s possible and we don’t think it’s a good idea,” regional director of traffic management Steve Kemp told members of the transportation committee.

The region initially proposed a 1.5-metre lane, separated from traffic by a painted line.

Markham council voiced its opposition to the plan, arguing for greater segregation of traffic. But what seems safest isn’t necessarily so and separate trails or curbs don’t work everywhere, Mr. Kemp said.

The region instead opted to keep the painted lane and add a half-metre buffer.

In addition to the new layout of the road — with new lanes for cyclists and Viva buses — the speed limit is expected to drop to 60 km/h. Nonetheless, a novice cyclist wouldn’t want to try Hwy. 7, any more than a novice driver would start on Hwy. 401, Mr. Kemp said.

A study conducted in Portland, Oregon broke riders down into several categories. Only 1 per cent are “strong and fearless”, the hardcore riders who go anywhere and everywhere. A further 7 per cent, dubbed “enthusiastic and confident” aren’t afraid to venture onto busy main streets. The biggest group, making up 62 per cent, were “interested but concerned”, when it comes to venturing beyond safer recreational trails.

It is that 7 per cent group at which the Hwy. 7 lanes are aimed, though the region hopes its numbers will expand over time.

It’s definitely progress, but councillors and staff need to keep an open mind and be flexible, Peter Miasek of Markham’s cycling and pedestrian advisory committee told councillors, especially if they’re going to target that larger, interested group.
[...]

https://www.yorkregion.com/news-story/1440332-cycling-lanes-pedal-onto-hwy-7/

Some claim tightropes are perfectly safe, and sticking your head in an alligators mouth...what could possibly go wrong?

But then some cyclists also admit to cycling through red lights, and then wonder why anyone would or should stop...

 

[hw621]

Since when this has become a cycling thread?

 

[Leo_Chan]

Since when this has become a cycling thread?

Since the Viva Rapidways included bike lanes in the scope of the project, so always technically.

There appears to be a multiuse path on the North side of Highway 7 between Bathurst and Yonge, where the single eastbound bus lane is. Would this be well used by cyclists? Of course people probably wouldn’t walk there unless their jogging.