Why aren't extracurricular activities part of teacher job descriptions?

[Admiral Beez]

If teacher-led extracurricular activities are considered a crucial part of elementary and secondary education in Ontario, why are they part of the teachers' job descriptions? Since they're not an official requirement of the teacher's employment, then I see no problem with them withholding or forever refusing to partake in extracurricular activities. On the other hand, if extracurricular activities were included in teachers' job descriptions, then the School Boards could simply give the list of activities to the teachers on day one, and require that they select so many activities to meet the official job requirements.

This is exactly how it happens in private schools. The teachers are instructed to choose and then lead a number of extracurricular activities. It's part of the job, and is not optional.

I'm not posting this to pick on teachers, not at all. My point is to ask that if extracurricular activities are so important, why are they not part of the job? And, since they're not, and thus considered volunteer or charity work for the school board during their otherwise free time, then we can't blame teachers from not taking part. It's they're free time.

 

[sixrings]

union

 

[Admiral Beez]

union

Sure, but schools have had extracurricular activities since before the days of powerful teacher unions.

Basically at the next contract negotiations the school boards should propose to add extracurricular activities to the official job duties and then add financial compensation for the teachers for the added workload. Alternatively, eliminate teacher involvement in extracurricular activities and instead create and hire a new level of gov't worker to run the programs separate from the schools. And if none of these are possible due to lack of funding, then we'd better admit that we're getting a good free deal from the teachers who run extracurricular activities in their non-paid free time.

If my boss asked me to drive deliveries on my off time, I'd likely say sure the first few times as I'm a team player. However if the boss now says you're now responsible for deliveries in your off time, well, then it's not really my off time anymore, and I'll demand to be compensated for the new workload.

 

[whatever]

I'm not posting this to pick on teachers, not at all. My point is to ask that if extracurricular activities are so important, why are they not part of the job? And, since they're not, and thus considered volunteer or charity work for the school board during their otherwise free time, then we can't blame teachers from not taking part. It's they're free time.

Disclaimer: I'm a teacher.

There's a social dynamic in the classroom that can create a barrier between teachers and students. I think part of the value of extracurricular activities is that it provides a venue for teachers and students to break down that barrier and develop a relationship that would otherwise be impossible in a classroom. I don't think I need to justify the importance of extracurriculars as a whole, but it's worth drawing attention to one aspect that sometimes escapes notice, and that's their voluntary nature. Students *know* that we aren't getting paid to do them, and students recognize the participation of teachers in their extracurriculars as an indication that for many teachers teaching isn't just a 9-5 punch-the-clock kind of deal. We do the extracurriculars because we genuinely care. I think something would be lost if it were mandated.

 

[Admiral Beez]

We do the extracurriculars because we genuinely care. I think something would be lost if it were mandated.

I appreciate that, but if they were mandated then teachers could not hold students hostage who now depend on these activities as part of university acceptances.

My friend who's a teacher at a private schools loves the extracurriculars he leads, and they're mandated there.

 

[js97]

It's not the teachers that are withholding, it's the union heads that need to justify their existence at times and 'peer pressure' teachers NOT to go above and beyond.

My sister-inlaw is a teacher, and as an award winner and 'above and beyond' individual, she's always being asked to 'do less' etc.

It's quite discusting what the union goons try to push onto everyone. You would think teachers were working on an assembly line with highschool educations.

But to respond to the original post, it would workout better if the province did mandate extracurricular, as part of the compensation. For working only 9 months a year, it's one of the most well paid, recession proof positions out there.

 

[Admiral Beez]

But to respond to the original post, it would workout better if the province did mandate extracurricular, as part of the compensation.

So how much extra do you suggest we pay the teachers for the additional workload? We can't tell them they're lucky to have the job and thus must now at no compensation assume their volunteer roles as an added part of their job responsibilities. You can certainly take that position, but then you'll never achieve the objective. If you want the teachers and their union to agree to expanded job responsibilities then you'll have to offer them something.

 

[whatever]

My friend who's a teacher at a private schools loves the extracurriculars he leads, and they're mandated there.

I've also taught in the CIS, and it's a totally different environment. I'd be cautious about trying to extrapolate from what works in private schools

 

[spider]

I worked for many years for a certain well known telephone company, I also coached Hockey and Softball in the premier local leagues.
The telephone job paid me, the coaching jobs did not which was OK with me because unlike our current crop of teachers I saw no connection between the 2 activities.

The coaching activities in which I was involved were not contingent on the telephone company giving me a raise. I wouldn't be surprised if I spent more time, effort and money in one Hockey season than the average teacher/coach spends in their entire coaching career.

 

[js97]

So how much extra do you suggest we pay the teachers for the additional workload? We can't tell them they're lucky to have the job and thus must now at no compensation assume their volunteer roles as an added part of their job responsibilities. You can certainly take that position, but then you'll never achieve the objective. If you want the teachers and their union to agree to expanded job responsibilities then you'll have to offer them something.

Well, considering the amount of new teachers that are out there and the hiring requirements (extra curricular activities are looked upon favourably and used to differentiate them) they should begin to include these activities as part of their job description for new teachers. For existing teachers, one can slowly phase in new requirements with every contract renewal. Teachers are essentially contract workers and have their contract re-negotiated every few years.

The days of the public sector unions have gone the way of the dodo bird. Private sector unions have their place and understand the economic constraints. Public sector unions simply hold citizens hostage. They need to go.

 

[flonicky]

In answer to the OP, a report in the 90s recommended making extracurricular part of the job descriptions for clarity's sake, but no government followed up.

 

[Admiral Beez]

In answer to the OP, a report in the 90s recommended making extracurricular part of the job descriptions for clarity's sake, but no government followed up.

That's likely the best route. However what do we give the teachers in return for expanding their job description? I work in the private sector, and in my boss told me that my paid work load and responsbilities had just increased a sizable degree, I'd be demanding a raise. Might not get one of course.

The teachers have to be careful here, as McGuinty is child's play compared to what the Conservatives will do if they win, especially if Tim Hudack is tossed for someone more extreme.

 

[BurlOak]

That's likely the best route. However what do we give the teachers in return for expanding their job description? I work in the private sector, and in my boss told me that my paid work load and responsbilities had just increased a sizable degree, I'd be demanding a raise. Might not get one of course.

The teachers have to be careful here, as McGuinty is child's play compared to what the Conservatives will do if they win, especially if Tim Hudack is tossed for someone more extreme.

I say we give them a reduction in pay.

Our elementary school starts at 8:20 and ends at 2:50. Teachers arrive 15 minutes before and stay 15 minutes after. They also get 45 minutes for lunch. This means they work 6.25 hours per day (I give them credit that they are working for the additional 45 minutes they are out of the classroom, which is labelled as preparation time). If the average work day is 7.5 hours, this means they are working 17% less.
In terms of vacation, they get 9 weeks off in the summer, 2 weeks at Christmas, and 1 week March break. This means they work 40 weeks per year. Assume the average worker gets 5 weeks vacation - meaning they work 47 weeks per year. This represent another 15% that the teachers work less.

I would say that if extra extracurricular is not mandatory, they should be looking at about a 30% pay reduction. In order to maintain their salary where it is, they (all teachers) should agree to a increase of about 2 hours per day for extracurricular activities. Some could do lunch duty or provide extra help, others could do more hours for part of the year when they volunteer more, and then less for other parts of the year.

If teachers want to view themselves as professionals, then I would say most professionals take work home and work late periodically and they think about and plan for work problems while at home.

All that being said, I do not think the above contract should be imposed by legislation. It would be a starting point for bargaining, with hopes of achieving headway in several successive rounds of bargaining.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I would say that if extra extracurricular is not mandatory, they should be looking at about a 30% pay reduction.

On what grounds can you cut someone's pay for not doing volunteer work? Extracuriculars have never been an official part of teacher's roles. So, you've got it backwards. If you want the teacher's to accept that extra duties be added to their official responsibilities then you need to offer them something in return - and that can't be a threat to cut their pay if they don't accept the new added responsibilities.

Myself, I never used any extracuricular activities when I was a student. I played organized sports outside of school. I belonged to several clubs, including model making, cycling, swimming, Scouts, Cadets... all with no involvement with school. My own children have piano lessons, gymnastic lessons, twice a week at home math tutors, and art classes all outside of school time and with zero involvement of the teachers. And no I'm not rich, we make financial sacrifices for these activities for the kids, but I have zero expectation that the schools or teachers in their off time provide these activities.

Where the teachers are failing IMO, is in the teaching. Cursive is no longer taught, kids can't spell, can't do simple math, can't write neatly and can't tell a homonym from a gerund or understand any rules of grammar. So, forget the after class drama clubs et al, and instead focus on getting the kids in their seats and learning during the school day.

 

[spider]

Holding a teaching certificate may qualify a teacher to teach in a classroom but that qualification may not cross lines into an after school volunteer situation.

A tremendously successful Math teacher could be a terrible soccer coach whose only qualification is that he is already there and wants the position. The kids (also volunteers) deserve better or at least as talented leaders as they could expect in similar past times outside of the school environment.

I don't believe teachers should be required to participate in after school activities unless they are qualified when there are all kinds of volunteers who could enjoy the job as much and do it better. Let's not forget the after school stuff is intended to benefit the kids first.