News   Sep 28, 2021
 482     0 
News   Sep 28, 2021
 568     1 
News   Sep 27, 2021
 4.2K     8 

West Don Lands: Blocks 17+26 (Dominion Foundry Complex, ?, ?s, ?)

DSC

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
13,568
Reaction score
11,429
Location
St Lawrence Market Area
Ford and his government are so used to living in a reality where they just get to do whatever they want, screw everyone else, and just bulldoze through (or threaten to use the notwithstanding clause when they get pushback against their craven and shameful undermining of our democracy) so it's tremendously satisfying to see them finally run into a wall. They've been able to get away with it mostly so far because there aren't many checks on a majority government without scruples or any sense of shame, but finally they've run into a part of civic society that actually values truth and just process.

This part seems like it could be very interesting:


I wonder how much agency this gives the City's Heritage Building Manager to dispute the province's heritage assessment.
Mary McDonald is a very experienced heritage planner so she will take "some convincing".

The SLNA brief questioned the qualifications of the author of the Province's heritage assessment.
 

adma

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
16,861
Reaction score
1,468
Mary McDonald is a very experienced heritage planner so she will take "some convincing".

The SLNA brief questioned the qualifications of the author of the Province's heritage assessment.
Well, yeah. Written by one of Infrastructure Ontario's employees, rather than somebody actually within the Ministry of Heritage et al...
 

UtakataNoAnnex

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 5, 2020
Messages
2,456
Reaction score
2,822
Great news. Let's hope our illustrious Premier doesn't decide he needs to use the notwithstanding clause to get his way. :p
...depending whether this is matter covered covered under that clause.

That said and still, it would be a real *Bleep!*hole move on his part if he tried to do that. As well as, potentially making our constitution dangerously weaker for something so petty in the provincial scheme of things.
 

syn

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
5,147
Reaction score
3,346
...depending whether this is matter covered covered under that clause.

That said and still, it would be a real *Bleep!*hole move on his part if he tried to do that. As well as, potentially making our constitution dangerously weaker for something so petty in the provincial scheme of things.

He was willing to use it to reduce the size of Toronto's city council. I wouldn't be shocked at all if he tried it again.
 

Ottawan

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
1,248
Reaction score
4,213
Location
Bloor & Jane
...depending whether this is matter covered covered under that clause.

It's not.

He was willing to use it to reduce the size of Toronto's city council. I wouldn't be shocked at all if he tried it again.

That is not how the law works. The Notwithstanding Clause concerns constitutional issues, not legislative requirements as at issue here.

That's not to say there aren't other legal ways for the Province to steamroll into getting its own way, it's just not the Notwithstanding Clause in this case.
 

UtakataNoAnnex

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 5, 2020
Messages
2,456
Reaction score
2,822
That is not how the law works. The Notwithstanding Clause concerns constitutional issues, not legislative requirements as at issue here.

That's not to say there aren't other legal ways for the Province to steamroll into getting its own way, it's just not the Notwithstanding Clause in this case.
Thank you for taking the time to explain something I wasn't entirely sure about, isn't my field of expertise, but something about that just wasn't adding up...and saving me from having to wade into it to work out why I suspect this matter is unlikely an issue of the constitution per say. So I am now indebted to you for that. /bows
 

bilked

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Sep 13, 2013
Messages
1,502
Reaction score
7,571
2D2E7A2E-286A-41EA-B4DC-A79247063EB3.jpeg
305D89B5-66DE-4D44-B232-E27FE67026DE.jpeg
3C758723-72C8-4B9D-B129-DFB894562D58.jpeg
1AAA545A-A488-4BE7-B741-E908EC64A922.jpeg
8234B6F9-7883-4115-8856-83CBF6EF6302.jpeg
496D71FC-9B1D-4EC2-8BFA-48A47E740BC8.jpeg
 

kweku

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 27, 2007
Messages
375
Reaction score
221
I have been following news and all the fights about this developments and it's about time to provide my few cents here.
I am on board with maintaining heritage structures around the world for future generations to learn about the history of humanity.

But these foundry structures are NOTHING that would be missed if they are demolished to make way for affordable housing.
Remember, HUMANY itself is at risk if we cannot provide affordable housing for the unfortunate in society.
We could lose the opportunity to educate some children who could otherwise have places to stay, study, and possibly become future architects

I personally don't believe that majority of people opposing tearing down the structures have any interests in maintaining architectures
They are in REALITY people who are afraid to see poor people move to their neighborhoods due to affordable housing.

Lets STOP the HATE, Let's STOP the entitlements and the nonsense in the name of preserving heritages.
 

Northern Light

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
14,583
Reaction score
27,768
Location
Toronto/EY
I have been following news and all the fights about this developments and it's about time to provide my few cents here.
I am on board with maintaining heritage structures around the world for future generations to learn about the history of humanity.

But these foundry structures are NOTHING that would be missed if they are demolished to make way for affordable housing.
Remember, HUMANY itself is at risk if we cannot provide affordable housing for the unfortunate in society.
We could lose the opportunity to educate some children who could otherwise have places to stay, study, and possibly become future architects

I personally don't believe that majority of people opposing tearing down the structures have any interests in maintaining architectures
They are in REALITY people who are afraid to see poor people move to their neighborhoods due to affordable housing.

Lets STOP the HATE, Let's STOP the entitlements and the nonsense in the name of preserving heritages.

There is no plan in place here for Affordable housing.

None, zero, squat, nada.

The Premier has mused about it without any public documents, any proposals whatsoever.

Your accusations against fellow members here are, at best, premature, if not entirely unfounded.

****

Moreover, as has been shown, this site could maintain those structures AND deliver significant affordable housing.
 

TheSix

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 2, 2016
Messages
506
Reaction score
1,466
I have been following news and all the fights about this developments and it's about time to provide my few cents here.
I am on board with maintaining heritage structures around the world for future generations to learn about the history of humanity.

But these foundry structures are NOTHING that would be missed if they are demolished to make way for affordable housing.
Remember, HUMANY itself is at risk if we cannot provide affordable housing for the unfortunate in society.
We could lose the opportunity to educate some children who could otherwise have places to stay, study, and possibly become future architects

I personally don't believe that majority of people opposing tearing down the structures have any interests in maintaining architectures
They are in REALITY people who are afraid to see poor people move to their neighborhoods due to affordable housing.

Lets STOP the HATE, Let's STOP the entitlements and the nonsense in the name of preserving heritages.
Hmmm, nothing to be missed? Have you been following the news and the public outcry? Sounds like they'd be missed to me...

As for the architectural value of these structures, it's debatable, but the community clearly has a love for them. Which in my eyes deems them worthy of further exploring their potential vs. destroying them for no given reason. Do we want another Liberty Village?

IF Doug the Thug had concrete plans, a proposal, SOMETHING that would justify their demise, this would be a completely different discussion.
 

DSC

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
13,568
Reaction score
11,429
Location
St Lawrence Market Area
I have been following news and all the fights about this developments and it's about time to provide my few cents here.
I am on board with maintaining heritage structures around the world for future generations to learn about the history of humanity.

But these foundry structures are NOTHING that would be missed if they are demolished to make way for affordable housing.
Remember, HUMANY itself is at risk if we cannot provide affordable housing for the unfortunate in society.
We could lose the opportunity to educate some children who could otherwise have places to stay, study, and possibly become future architects

I personally don't believe that majority of people opposing tearing down the structures have any interests in maintaining architectures
They are in REALITY people who are afraid to see poor people move to their neighborhoods due to affordable housing.

Lets STOP the HATE, Let's STOP the entitlements and the nonsense in the name of preserving heritages.
You really are remarkably uninformed. I cannot think of ANY UTer who is against affordable housing, the problem with your diatribe is that there are no FIRM plans for ANY affordable housing on this site and even the government talks of 3 towers, only the (much) smaller of them is 'affordable' in their statements. You should note that "affordable' also has many levels and interpretations. In my opinion, not all of the Foundry Buildings are worth saving and the office building (on Eastern Avenue) could, in my opinion, go. If the Fordites had come in and, after discussion, agreed to fund (good) affordable housing that required the demolition of this building and the 'filling-in'of some of the open spaces I would really have (almost) no problem. Of course, it would have been FAR better if they had said to the City that they were really interested in selling the site (which they have owned for 40+ years and never wanted to sell up to now) and announced that they had $$ for affordable housing and asked for City and community input on how best to blend heritage, housing and consultation.
 

lomeri

New Member
Member Bio
Joined
Oct 27, 2020
Messages
70
Reaction score
294
I have been following news and all the fights about this developments and it's about time to provide my few cents here.
I am on board with maintaining heritage structures around the world for future generations to learn about the history of humanity.

But these foundry structures are NOTHING that would be missed if they are demolished to make way for affordable housing.
Remember, HUMANY itself is at risk if we cannot provide affordable housing for the unfortunate in society.
We could lose the opportunity to educate some children who could otherwise have places to stay, study, and possibly become future architects

I personally don't believe that majority of people opposing tearing down the structures have any interests in maintaining architectures
They are in REALITY people who are afraid to see poor people move to their neighborhoods due to affordable housing.

Lets STOP the HATE, Let's STOP the entitlements and the nonsense in the name of preserving heritages.

Im sorry but this is a horrible read on the situation here, and even a bit negligent of the conversation in this thread. Many of us who are upset about the approach of the province here want more housing to be built including on this site. Two members in the area have created example models of how heritage structures on site could be incorporated into a development that delivers a significant amount of housing (even likely more than the province is claiming to want here). This site exists in a neighborhood where almost every structure is over 10 stories tall and completed in the last 10 years. Much of the value here exists because of development in East Harbor and the Portland’s too. Bulldozing the only major heritage property in a brand new 80 acre neighborhood is needless, especially when a win-win for heritage preservation and housing is both possible and desirable.

It’s also not the greed of neighborhoods like this one that prevents enough housing from getting built. 70% of this city is zoned for single detached homes only. A 6000sf mansion is ok here but a 4000sf triplex is banned. It’s an absolute joke. Neighborhoods that are well connected to public infrastructure and transit like the Danforth are less populated than they were in 1970 despite literally being along a subway line.

The fact of the matter is that this project does not make or break affordability in Toronto whatsoever because prices are driven by market supply, and we drastically under build due to our joke of zoning laws. This requires fundamental change, at least to zoning based on floor area ratios so that the vast majority of land in the City can accommodate gentle density like duplexes, triplexes, quadplexes and even sixplexes.

I really want to emphasize how little the province actually cares about affordable housing. Of Toronto’s affordable housing plan costing $14B, the feds are supporting $7B, and the province a measly $150M. The province is using affordable housing to mask the fact that they wanted to give a clean cheap property to some influential developer without being called out for corruption. And they are breaking laws doing so.
 

Top