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Waterfront: West Don Lands - Transit EA

The problem I see with this EA and the one for transit on Bremner or Front St West is that there is no masterplan of where these routes will terminate. How frequent can a route which goes from downtown and terminates on Cherry operate? If the Cherry street plan was part of a route from Union, along the waterfront, up Cherry and Sumach to Gerrard, over to Bayview for a trip on the Don Mills LRT... then I would see the value. For a short three block trip from King to the Distillery I don't see any value. These tracks may end up being as used as much as the rails on Church and McCaul.
 
EnviroTO said:
The problem I see with this EA and the one for transit on Bremner or Front St West is that there is no masterplan of where these routes will terminate. How frequent can a route which goes from downtown and terminates on Cherry operate? If the Cherry street plan was part of a route from Union, along the waterfront, up Cherry and Sumach to Gerrard, over to Bayview for a trip on the Don Mills LRT... then I would see the value. For a short three block trip from King to the Distillery I don't see any value. These tracks may end up being as used as much as the rails on Church and McCaul.
Click to expand...

The new Cherry St loop will be for every 3rd King Car from the west at first since nothing is there at present time. 514 will be use for it. Once the rest of the Portland get going, the 514 will end up at Unwin Ave.

There is plan to run every 3rd car from Broadview down Cherry. The 514 in fact could be both legs of the route.

Headway is to be every 5-10 minutes.

The extension to the Queens Quay E could end up both in the Portland and at Broadview as 2 different routes.

The different between Cherry and McCaul is, Cherry will have 4 times the ridership base than McCaul.

The current EA for the Western Waterfront including the (Bremner) Fort York line is a joke. If this EA was under the NEW plan EA, forget about trying to build a transit network.

The Current 3 EA's for the Western Waterfront needs to be scrap 100% with a total new EA look at for a transit corridor from the Humber to Union to be used by #ALL# transit systems. The 1992 EA never supported the (bremner) or west of Dufferin St as proposed by TTC today.

TTC themselves cannot say any new riders will be gain with this $600m project or move any riders off King or Queen. 900 riders a day for this new route is a poor investment. The residents of Parkdale don't support the current plans and want to spend more time looking at all options not on the table today.

The developers for the City Place don't support the need for an LRT on the Fort York as most residents drive to the 905 in the first place. The rest will walk or catch one of the other TTC lines within a 5 minute walking distance of them.
 
drum118 said:
The new Cherry St loop will be for every 3rd King Car from the west at first since nothing is there at present time.
Click to expand...
Last time I took a eastward 504 in rush hour, I got on at River Street, and the car was not that full (about 2/3 of the seats were taken). By the time we got to Broadview and Gerrard it was packed. Clearly the 504 is heavily used on Broadview in rush-hour. I'm not sure a service reduction on Broadview is going to go down well.
 
nfitz said:
Last time I took a eastward 504 in rush hour, I got on at River Street, and the car was not that full (about 2/3 of the seats were taken). By the time we got to Broadview and Gerrard it was packed. Clearly the 504 is heavily used on Broadview in rush-hour. I'm not sure a service reduction on Broadview is going to go down well.
Click to expand...

This has been raise a number of times during the process. From my take, more service will show up for all of the 504/514 as time goes on and more development in place.

Again, with the idea of having the 514 only going as far as Spadina, you can do a loop 100% for King/Cherry/QQ/Spadina in both direction.

The only problem is the missing section on the QQ east that is on hold until the Central EA is finish this year Then there is the issue at Union loop. QQ E will not see service until 2012 at the earliest compare to 2010 for Cherry.

Been on a number of 504 going west where it is almost empty until River where it starts picking up riders in the PM peak to the point it crush load at Church. Riderships is falling fast for the eastbound at River.

Maintaining the 5 minutes service for Cherry will have an impact on the 504 service over all.
 
timetable for Cherry Street?

I wonder when the makeover for Cherry Street takes place, along with the streetcar track extension from King Street. is this somehow contingent on the Pan Am bid and the planned athlete's village in the West Donlands?
 
jmacmillan said:
I wonder when the makeover for Cherry Street takes place, along with the streetcar track extension from King Street. is this somehow contingent on the Pan Am bid and the planned athlete's village in the West Donlands?
Click to expand...

Construction starts in 2010 with tracks in operation year end for phase 1.

A new underpass is to be built with transit on the east separated by support from 3 lanes of traffic and bike lanes. Will be presdratian walkway on either side of the underpass and wider than exist today. Provision made for access to a new GO Station for Cherry St.

Open House for Keating Channel, lower Don and Portland Sat May 9.

Drop in from 10 am to 11 am. Presentation 11:10 am to 1:15 pm.

Workshop 1:30 pm to 3:00 pm.

There will be 4 discussion table at the rear

Been held at the St Lawrence Hall, 157 King St E

Lakeshore will be 4 lanes with parking on both sides, there therefore the dissension has been made about the removal of the Gardiner.

The bridge for the Lake Shore over the Don will be rebuilt so the new bridge can be longer to help the mouth of the Don. New bike path along the north side of the Lake Shore and extend to the west where it stops now.

The New Cherry St south of the RR will T with the new Queens Quay road and LRT.

All new north south streets will be 80m apart. Transit stops 300m

Lots of good stuff in this combine EA

Come on out.
 
So does anyone know what's going on with Waterfront Toronto's other transit line dreams? I believe in their EA I saw a map with "Streetcar in dedicated ROW" on Unwin Avenue, Commissioner's Street and Leslie St. Could someone explain exactly what's supposed to happen there? I'm a bit confused.
 
Second_in_pie said:
So does anyone know what's going on with Waterfront Toronto's other transit line dreams? I believe in their EA I saw a map with "Streetcar in dedicated ROW" on Unwin Avenue, Commissioner's Street and Leslie St. Could someone explain exactly what's supposed to happen there? I'm a bit confused.
Click to expand...

Waterfront Toronto's (rather poor) website has some info but in essence the plans are:

1. Build streetcar line from King to just north of the rail bridge on Cherry Street. This is supposed to be constructed in 2010 and (I think) all the environmental assessments and approvals are in place. Apparently this will be the 514 and it will be interlined with the 504.

2. Build the east Bayfront line from Union Station to Parliament Street along Queen's Quay East. The EA for this is drawing to a close and the alignment of the line and the new portal are settled. It is supposed to be built in 2011. It will, temporarily, end in a loop at Parliament Street.

3. Link the Cherry Street Line to the East Bayfront line following a realignment of Cherry Street south of the rail bridge. I have not seen a date for this but I guess maybe 2015 as it involves the Gardiner's possible demolition. Maybe if the Pan-Am Games are here it will be pushed forward a year.

4. Build a new carhouse in the Portlands to serve all the new streetcars about to be bought for the "legacy streetcar lines". This would replace the two existing yards and $$ for it are in the new streetcar budget. Again I do not know when this will happen but it will be needed in 2014 or so as the new streetcars cannot easily be serviced in the existing yards.

5. The existing Queen's Quay west line will be rebuilt in conjunction with the plans to beautify QQ.

After all this (well after 2015 I bet!) they have plans to extend the QQ East line into the Portlands, possibly to Unwin. If this happens, and I'm not holding my breath, it could then go up Leslie to Queen.
 
Last edited:
I had posted this in the West Don Lands thread earlier today. I repost it here. Mods may want to delete one of them, or not.

Waterfront Toronto is assembling property to accomodate the new streetcar lane on Cherry Street. These two from Committee of Adjustment of May 6, 2009. SEE: http://www.toronto.ca/planning/pdf/c..._pm_6may09.pdf


34. 507 KING ST E
File Number: B0038/09TEY Zoning I1 D3 (Waiver)
Owner(s): SCOTT ALAN MARTIN
[ Ward: Toronto Centre-Rosedale (28)
Agent: WATERFRONT TORONTO
Property Address: 507 KING ST E
Legal Description: PL D226 LTS 3 AND 4 PT LTS 1 AND 2
THE CONSENT REQUESTED:
The subject site is located on the west side of Cherry Street between King Street East and Virgin Place Lanes .
Waterfront Toronto on behalf of the applicant has submitted the application to sever 42.33 m2 of the subject lands along Cherry Street (Part 1 shown on the draft reference plan). The severed land is to be conveyed to the City of Toronto as part of the new Cherry Street right-of-way. Part 1 is currently being used as part of the entrance driveway and landscaping. This application does not impact on the continued use of the site and no variances are required.
Conveyed - Part 1, Draft R-Plan
Part 1 is a strip of land 10.659 m along Cherry Street and an area of 42.33 m2. The strip of land is to be conveyed to the City of Toronto for widening the new Cherry Street right-of-way.
Retained - Part 2, Draft R-Plan
(507 King Street East)
Part 2 is parcel of land irregular in shape and an area of 2293.06 m2. No changes are proposed to the existing four-storey commercial building or to the site.

And this:

35. 525 KING ST E
File Number: B0039/09TEY Zoning I1 D3 (Waiver)
Owner(s): 1208930 ONTARIO INC
[ Ward: Toronto Centre-Rosedale
(28)
Agent: WATERFRONT TORONTO
Property Address: 525 KING ST E Community:
Legal Description: PL 108 PT LTS 20 & 21 RP RD161 PT 21
THE CONSENT REQUESTED:
The subject site is located on the southwest corner of Cherry/Sumach Street and King Street East. Waterfront Toronto on behalf of the applicant has submitted the application to sever 21.2 m2 of the subject lands along Cherry Sumach Street (Part 1 shown on the draft reference plan). The severed land is be conveyed to the City of
Toronto as part of the new Cherry Street right-of-way. Part 1 is currently being used as part of the entrance driveway and landscaping. This application does not impact on the continued use of the site and no variances are required.
Conveyed – Part 1, Draft R-Plan
Part 1 is a strip of land 1.1 m wide an area 21.2 m2. This strip of land is to be conveyed to the City of Toronto for widening the new Cherry Street right-of-way.
Retained – Part 2, Draft R-Plan
(525 King Street East)
Part 2 is a parcel of land at the corner of King Street East and Cherry Street. No changes are proposed to the existing veterinary Clinic or to the site.
 
DSC said:
Waterfront Toronto's (rather poor) website has some info but in essence the plans are:

1. Build streetcar line from King to just north of the rail bridge on Cherry Street. This is supposed to be constructed in 2010 and (I think) all the environmental assessments and approvals are in place. Apparently this will be the 514 and it will be interlined with the 504.

2. Build the east Bayfront line from Union Station to Parliament Street along Queen's Quay East. The EA for this is drawing to a close and the alignment of the line and the new portal are settled. It is supposed to be built in 2011. It will, temporarily, end in a loop at Parliament Street.

3. Link the Cherry Street Line to the East Bayfront line following a realignment of Cherry Street south of the rail bridge. I have not seen a date for this but I guess maybe 2015 as it involves the Gardiner's possible demolition. Maybe if the Pan-Am Games are here it will be pushed forward a year.

4. Build a new carhouse in the Portlands to serve all the new streetcars about to be bought for the "legacy streetcar lines". This would replace the two existing yards and $$ for it are in the new streetcar budget. Again I do not know when this will happen but it will be needed in 2014 or so as the new streetcars cannot easily be serviced in the existing yards.

5. The existing Queen's Quay west line will be rebuilt in conjunction with the plans to beautify QQ.

After all this (well after 2015 I bet!) they have plans to extend the QQ East line into the Portlands, possibly to Unwin. If this happens, and I'm not holding my breath, it could then go up Leslie to Queen.
Click to expand...
Thanks a lot! So the Cherry St. LRT/Streetcar is only going to be serving the West Don Lands for a while, and the QQ East is going to be serving East Bayfront.

From the map, I'm guessing that the Cherry St. Streetcar will be extended down through Portlands to Cherry Beach after development starts? If they're putting Streetcars on Commissioner's and Unwin, they could make a looping Cherry-Unwin-Leslie-Commissioner's route, with the ability to have a Commissioner's-Cherry-King route (or whatever) during rush hour? Actually, thinking about that again that'd be a pretty hard corridor to make routes for.

How cool would it be to have High Rise Condos all across the Leslie St. Spit, serviced by a Leslie St. LRT? If you ask me, the Spit has so much potential for development, but let's do one part of the waterfront at a time.

Anyways, it's all looking good :)
 
Second_in_pie said:
How cool would it be to have High Rise Condos all across the Leslie St. Spit, serviced by a Leslie St. LRT? If you ask me, the Spit has so much potential for development, but let's do one part of the waterfront at a time.
Click to expand...

Puts a whole new meaning to "tower in the park"
 
Second_in_pie said:
How cool would it be to have High Rise Condos all across the Leslie St. Spit, serviced by a Leslie St. LRT? If you ask me, the Spit has so much potential for development, but let's do one part of the waterfront at a time.

Anyways, it's all looking good :)
Click to expand...

Throw in a couple supertalls, extend the runway at City Centre and get the jets going, and you just may have an intresting waterfront .:eek::D
 
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