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Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

How should Toronto connect the East and West arms of the planned waterfront transit with downtown?

  • Expand the existing Union loop

    Votes: 162 73.3%
  • Build a Western terminus

    Votes: 9 4.1%
  • Route service along Queen's Quay with pedestrian/cycle/bus connection to Union

    Votes: 23 10.4%
  • Connect using existing Queen's Quay/Union Loop and via King Street

    Votes: 12 5.4%
  • Other

    Votes: 15 6.8%

  • Total voters
    221

drum118

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That post drum linked is unclear. Is this a tunnel through the railway embankment, or some kind of tunnel under Lakeshore that we haven't heard of before? And why at a place "where these two iconic waterfront transit streets meet" and huge density is planned is there no OL station?
That Why I question it as I have no first hand knowledge of such tunnel. Other than going through the RR embankment, or part of the new portal, haven't seen or heard of any tunnel that meets the posted info.
 

smallspy

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That post drum linked is unclear. Is this a tunnel through the railway embankment, or some kind of tunnel under Lakeshore that we haven't heard of before? And why at a place "where these two iconic waterfront transit streets meet" and huge density is planned is there no OL station?
Previously, it seemed to be a toss-up between repurposing half of the existing roadway underpass for streetcar lanes, running the tracks in the roadway, or building a new underpass at Cherry St. in order to run the streetcar tracks further south. Judging of the wording in that article, it would appear that they've settled on the latter.

Dan
 

polesingularity

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Previously, it seemed to be a toss-up between repurposing half of the existing roadway underpass for streetcar lanes, running the tracks in the roadway, or building a new underpass at Cherry St. in order to run the streetcar tracks further south. Judging of the wording in that article, it would appear that they've settled on the latter.

Dan
Since the article linked is just a news brief from an engineering magazine and not an official news release, perhaps the tunnel is simply an error/misunderstanding on the author's part. It's hard to believe WT would just slip something like that into the plans.
 

DSC

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Since the article linked is just a news brief from an engineering magazine and not an official news release, perhaps the tunnel is simply an error/misunderstanding on the author's part. It's hard to believe WT would just slip something like that into the plans.
I suspect it is not (yet) the official plan but it has certainly been discussed at various planing meetings and makes sense. The TTC are very adverse to sharing roads and the Cherry underpass is very narrow. The Cherry St Signal Building is going to be obsolete very soon as the Metrolinx signal upgrade is almost finished and there are plans to move it (as a historic relic) a bit further east. All in all, I bet they will add a tunnel through the rail berm for LRT.
 

drum118

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Virtual Community Consultation on June 21, 2021!

This engagement will cover:

· Initial design work for the extension of Queens Quay from Parliament Street to the Distillery Loop, including options for getting under the rail corridor

· Design updates for the surface section on the LRT and Queens Quay East streetscape, including an update on the Yonge Street Slip

· Progress update on the design of the underground section of the LRT from Union Loop to the proposed portal locations on Queens Quay East, and a new design concept plan for Bay Street following completion of underground works

· An update on project phasing and implementation

· An overview of the upcoming Transit Project Assessment Process (TPAP) for the project

· An update and a summary of feedback from the February consultations

Stay Informed: Consultation materials will be made available on the project website. A recording of the meeting will be posted on the website following the meeting.

Get Involved: Ask questions and provide your comments at the June 21 Virtual Community Consultation. A brief overview presentation will be made, followed by a one-hour question and comment period with project staff.

Provide Feedback: A brief online survey will be posted following the public meeting and will be open from June 21 – July 6, 2021.

Virtual Community Consultation Details:

If you would like to attend, please register.

Join the meeting through Zoom on:

· Date: Monday, June 21, 2021

· Time: 7:00 p.m. – 8:30 p.m.

Or, Join by Phone:

· 1-647-374-4685

· Webinar ID: 629 9971 2910

· Passcode: 8255128245

If you are unable to attend this meeting, meeting notes and a recording will be shared. Please also feel free to reach out to the project team with any comments or questions you have.

We look forward to meeting with you on June 21.
 

Jeff Morgan

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Virtual Community Consultation on June 21, 2021!

This engagement will cover:

· Initial design work for the extension of Queens Quay from Parliament Street to the Distillery Loop, including options for getting under the rail corridor

· Design updates for the surface section on the LRT and Queens Quay East streetscape, including an update on the Yonge Street Slip

· Progress update on the design of the underground section of the LRT from Union Loop to the proposed portal locations on Queens Quay East, and a new design concept plan for Bay Street following completion of underground works

· An update on project phasing and implementation

· An overview of the upcoming Transit Project Assessment Process (TPAP) for the project

· An update and a summary of feedback from the February consultations

Will this primarily be a recap of what was covered in the last session with the added "feedback" or will something new be presented?
 

drum118

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Will this primarily be a recap of what was covered in the last session with the added "feedback" or will something new be presented?
yes as well what taken place since then
 

DSC

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In a Report to TTC Board on June 16 the TTC are reporting:

Waterfront Transit: $2.0 million or 31% of the $6.6 million included in the 2021 Approved Capital Budget for the Waterfront Transit project has been spent as of Period 4. Projected year-end spending is anticipated to be $9.2 million or 140% of the 2021 Approved Capital Budget. The increase in projected year-end spending is due to the advancement of design work. A budget adjustment to increase the spending authority will be included in the Quarter 2 Variance Report to City Council for approval to accommodate this accelerated funding requirement for 2021.
See page 19 of http://ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commiss...for_Period_Ended_May_1_2021_and_Major_Pro.pdf
 

drum118

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Cannot release any material related to next week meeting, but a lot of updated stuff and material not seen before.

I like the new option 2 for the Yonge slip. Jarvis has seen some change. The never seen the Parliament Slip until now and need more info on it to comment on it.

4 options are on the table to get under the rail embankment for Cherry St with 3 being from the 2008 EA for the Cherry St ROW. Option 1for a new bridge rule out and what a surprise due to cost and impact on the corridor. No issue doing this for Simcoe St underpass. Option 2 running in mix traffic rule out and no surprise since it was rejected in 2008. Option 3 moving the tower. Option 4 sees the tower house remaining with the line going east of it under the embankment and the removal of the Loop. This option opens up a cans of worm that sees the line going to the Polson Loop first with a how. I raise the issue how can you run the line to Polson Loop when there is no bridge for the line over the mouth of the Don since it and Commissioner St bridge were pull due to lack of funds. An opp's. The other issue if you take the line to Polson first, when will the connection to Cherry St happen?? My recommendation you do both as Rapid Transit to the Portland was to be transit first starting back in 2004.

Union loop is to be fully built out with provision for the Brenner line due the change to the Sky Dome area. Access to the new bus terminal now to/from the loop.

The current plan calls for a full east-west line before work takes place on the tunnel and Loop. Since Bay St is up for rebuilt, it may become part of the rebuilt project and would love to see traffic remove 100% south of Queen.

The current portal will be rebuilt to match the east one with an lighted canopy.

Change to Queens Quay Station with a walkway between cars for 2 car platform platform now. Have issues with this.

The biggest issue for me is one elevator that will never handle the needs on a slow day, let alone a busy one even if its a large high speed one. Hello lawsuits. The tunnel on the south side of QQ will have knock out panels to meet future needs My recommendation is to put in ramps in place of elevators.

30% design and full cost to council for Nov along with an EA to the province for approval.

Calls for an OL Station at Cherry St, but a province thing with a big no.

As usual, the call for inconvenience of 2 years cause by construction, noise and traffic conditions and having 2 lanes of traffic at all times when the QQW only saw one lane traffic the switch direction as work took place.

A lot of cycles will not be happy with the plan as they will have to slow down in location than blow through the area. Don't feel sorry for them.

Still talking 2031 for this extension with no clear info when the east-west line could be in service as well the loop. Once the east-west line is up and running, real work on the Bay tunnel and loop, be expect some will start when the line is close to connect the east to the west line.

Still needs work and still in work for next week meeting..
 

ARG1

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Cannot release any material related to next week meeting, but a lot of updated stuff and material not seen before.

I like the new option 2 for the Yonge slip. Jarvis has seen some change. The never seen the Parliament Slip until now and need more info on it to comment on it.

4 options are on the table to get under the rail embankment for Cherry St with 3 being from the 2008 EA for the Cherry St ROW. Option 1for a new bridge rule out and what a surprise due to cost and impact on the corridor. No issue doing this for Simcoe St underpass. Option 2 running in mix traffic rule out and no surprise since it was rejected in 2008. Option 3 moving the tower. Option 4 sees the tower house remaining with the line going east of it under the embankment and the removal of the Loop. This option opens up a cans of worm that sees the line going to the Polson Loop first with a how. I raise the issue how can you run the line to Polson Loop when there is no bridge for the line over the mouth of the Don since it and Commissioner St bridge were pull due to lack of funds. An opp's. The other issue if you take the line to Polson first, when will the connection to Cherry St happen?? My recommendation you do both as Rapid Transit to the Portland was to be transit first starting back in 2004.

Union loop is to be fully built out with provision for the Brenner line due the change to the Sky Dome area. Access to the new bus terminal now to/from the loop.

The current plan calls for a full east-west line before work takes place on the tunnel and Loop. Since Bay St is up for rebuilt, it may become part of the rebuilt project and would love to see traffic remove 100% south of Queen.

The current portal will be rebuilt to match the east one with an lighted canopy.

Change to Queens Quay Station with a walkway between cars for 2 car platform platform now. Have issues with this.

The biggest issue for me is one elevator that will never handle the needs on a slow day, let alone a busy one even if its a large high speed one. Hello lawsuits. The tunnel on the south side of QQ will have knock out panels to meet future needs My recommendation is to put in ramps in place of elevators.

30% design and full cost to council for Nov along with an EA to the province for approval.

Calls for an OL Station at Cherry St, but a province thing with a big no.

As usual, the call for inconvenience of 2 years cause by construction, noise and traffic conditions and having 2 lanes of traffic at all times when the QQW only saw one lane traffic the switch direction as work took place.

A lot of cycles will not be happy with the plan as they will have to slow down in location than blow through the area. Don't feel sorry for them.

Still talking 2031 for this extension with no clear info when the east-west line could be in service as well the loop. Once the east-west line is up and running, real work on the Bay tunnel and loop, be expect some will start when the line is close to connect the east to the west line.

Still needs work and still in work for next week meeting..
The plan to have a walkway between cars on Queens Quay imo is incredibly disappointing, and I really hope they reconsider that.
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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Is it new? I thought that walkway was already a known in the preivously posted plans (from the March WT DRP slidedeck):

1623806415866.png


I am fairly agnostic about that walkway (it already exist in the current station) - evermore slightly lean against it, but I can see it as a way to provide redundancy for accessibility reasons. I can also see a scenario where people would get off to catch another LRT in the same direction, skipping the dwell at Union.

AoD
 
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ARG1

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Is it news? I thought that walkway was already a known in the preivously posted plans (from the March WT DRP slidedeck):

View attachment 328336

I am fairly agnostic about that walkway (it already exist in the current station) - but evermore slightly lean against it, but I can see it as a way to provide redundancy for accessibility reasons.

AoD
It is true that it currently exists, but I was thinking that this rebuild could've been an opportunity to get rid of it and just have a standard station with platforms connected by a separated connector.
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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It is true that it currently exists, but I was thinking that this rebuild could've been an opportunity to get rid of it and just have a standard station with platforms connected by a separated connector.

It's a cheap way to provide elevator redundancy for both platforms - and worst comes to worst they can always block it off after the fact if it affects operations.

AoD
 

44 North

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The current plan calls for a full east-west line before work takes place on the tunnel and Loop. Since Bay St is up for rebuilt, it may become part of the rebuilt project and would love to see traffic remove 100% south of Queen.



Still talking 2031 for this extension with no clear info when the east-west line could be in service as well the loop. Once the east-west line is up and running, real work on the Bay tunnel and loop, be expect some will start when the line is close to connect the east to the west line.

2031 for full completion. But if Loop and Bay work are a separate project, then theoretically we could see this east-west line well before that. That actually sounds pretty good.
 

drum118

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2031 for full completion. But if Loop and Bay work are a separate project, then theoretically we could see this east-west line well before that. That actually sounds pretty good.
I was sure it was full, but knowing things with the city, I take it with salt. As I stated before, we could see the e-w line in service by 2027 depending how fast the designs are 100% complete for tender, tender stage and funding. It only took 2 years to do the west, but we have 3 portals to do, infill 3 locations. If things went to tender late 2022, we could see construction in 2023. Using 3 to 3.5 years for construction bring us into 2027. Even 2028 will not be a big deal. This gives TTC a lot of room to deal with the loop and tunnel.

To build the line to Polson Loop, you are only looking at the ROW and the Loop, assuming we can get the south Cherry bridge being added to the cost and only taking a year to do at worse.

TTC then has a number of option for service after full completion as well before then not using Union.
1: Polson to Exhibition 509
2: An loop route by QQ to Bathurst to King To Cherry
3: Polson to Dundas West
4: Queen E by Cheery St to QQ and Union
5: Broadview Station to Union
6: Polson to Union
7: Spadina Station to Polson

Ridership will be very weak for Polson outside of summer months until development starts and when people start moving in. Will get more once on QQ where development exist today and by opening day
 
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