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Union Station LRT Loop Reconfiguration (TTC, Proposed)

superman

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I think the moving walkway is a great idea. Only 500M to cover - shorter than some examples from around the world at major interchange stations. I think also similar to the YYZ Terminal 1 international walkway?

It's definitely better than the cable car idea, which would require additional wait time. I think having a through service for the East/West LRT could have benefits too without the Union Loop bottleneck.
 

W. K. Lis

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The fact that they're still considering this moving walkway is embarrassing in itself. If they're considering a moving walkway here, why don't they consider converting the Sheppard Subway into a moving walkway as well.

If they're considering moving walkways, why did they remove the moving walkway at Spadina Station?

subway-5106-10.jpg
spadina_walkway_after.jpg


If they do go with a moving walkway south of Union Station, they had better put in a new one at Spadina Station as well.
 
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Megaton327

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Interesting that Option A shows the "future bremner line" on the map, while options B and C seem to pretty much nullify the possibility.

I think the moving walkways are a fantastic way to make a terrible passenger experience for the LRTs, shift existing and potential future transit riders to cars instead, and just generally make things worse for everybody.

There are a lot of problems with the Union Loop expansion, but I think it's the best idea. How many of the LRT passengers will be through passengers rather than being destined for Union? 10%-20%, maybe? I think it makes far more sense to have the direct Union connection, those few people can always just get off at Queen's Quay station as a shortcut for the through connection. Or if there end up being lots of through riders, they can run half of the trains straight through, and the other half to Union.

Option C is interesting. It lets the LRTs take advantage of not having to make the jaunt up to Union, but still gives passengers a potentially somewhat fast and comfortable connection to/from Union--though added transfers are still bad.

Edit: to expand on my issues with the moving walkway, keep in mind a lot of people in they city are very anti-transit. They're looking for reasons to avoid taking transit, and those reasons stack up quickly. Yes, it's a fairly short distance--heck, I make the walk through the PATH to/from the RBC building on Queen's Quay frequently instead of taking the 509/510 one stop--but people won't see it that way; they'll see it as an existing stretch of an underground, fully separated streetcar line being removed, and being told they have to walk instead, regardless of the distance and any walkways installed. Mark my words, if they proceed with this, people won't be happy, ridership will plummet, and there will be a lot more cars on the road in the area. I really hope they're smart enough not to do this...
 

muller877

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I hate criticism for criticism's sake.

That being said, Option B is a joke.

Did you look at Option A? It means you are already walking an extra 100m+ to get to the streetcar. And even at that there will be a lineup out the door of people trying to go 1 or 2 stops (estimated 50-70% of the people).

Option C would mean that you would have another vehicle to wait for. I was initially interested in it (assuming it was circular cable...a gondola with 20+ cars) but their solution seems silly.

Option B also seems like it is destined to failure. Why only a uni-directional conveyor belt? Each tunnel is 3.0m and the conveyor belt is 1.2m. Why not at least a second belt (and a 3rd in case of failure)? Who thought of this?

They have also not thought about how to get people to the surface once they hit Union. The stairs are already jammed. How about the added people (but I guess with a conveyor belt the demand will be more spread out)
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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They have also not thought about how to get people to the surface once they hit Union. The stairs are already jammed. How about the added people (but I guess with a conveyor belt the demand will be more spread out)

There are exits planned at the east side of the Bay teamway - which people already have to walk to in order to get to the GO Bus station and GO Platform is that's their destination. Besides, you'd have exactly the same problem as a pedestrian tunnel or funicular. On top of that, as EBF gets redeveloped, I wonder just how much of the ridership will get off at Queens Quay station as a portion of total.

And re: the tunnel - to put it into perspective, the 200M long YTZ tunnel is 10M wide - not 2x 500M worth of 3M.

AoD
 
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ADRM

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Only 500M to cover

The fact that this is even being considered -- remember that this option includes a 5 football field-long non-assisted walk one way -- should be the source of great embarrassment for the planners at the helm (or at least whomever directed them to include it for consideration).

Planners are telling people with mobility issues to walk half a kilometre as part of their last mile? GTFO with that.
 

muller877

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The fact that this is even being considered -- remember that this option includes a 5 football field-long non-assisted walk one way -- should be the source of great embarrassment for the planners at the helm (or at least whomever directed them to include it for consideration).

Planners are telling people with mobility issues to walk half a kilometre as part of their last mile? GTFO with that.

Don't worry. The planners want this idea killed. They want their funicular. I wonder where the "conference" is for the supplier of funiculars?

The deliberately chose 1.2 meters width to have it too wide for the tunnel. A 1.2 meter walkway is 1.55m in width. So bidirectional would be 3.1m. 0.1 shy of the current tunnel width.
http://www.mitsubishielectric.com/e...oving_walks/a_moving_walks/pdf/catalog_hi.pdf

Although I expect there would be a supplier that could make a 1.1m product that would work.
 

goreckm

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Did you look at Option A? It means you are already walking an extra 100m+ to get to the streetcar. And even at that there will be a lineup out the door of people trying to go 1 or 2 stops (estimated 50-70% of the people).

You're still going to have that same problem lining up at Queen's Quay though, but after walking 500m+, and taking the stairs, or doing a detour to take the elevator through one of the buildings around the intersection.
 

Momo49

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I hate criticism for criticism's sake.

That being said, Option B is a joke.

I think it is clear that cost is playing a part into why these alternative options are on the table. Option B is intriguing from the perspective of potential PATH expansion (although perhaps the existing tunnel is a bit too narrow) , which is a major reason why Downtown Toronto has become the business and financial capital of Canada (some may argue moreso than the role transit has played to date).
 

Forgotten

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The fact that they're still considering this moving walkway is embarrassing in itself. If they're considering a moving walkway here, why don't they consider converting the Sheppard Subway into a moving walkway as well.

Point being? It's fully enclosed, affects an order of magnitude less people, and a shorter walk than the hike from the proposed downtown subway to the major destinations in the shoulder areas, the latter matter nobody here seems to have a problem with so why would the moving walkway be a sticking point? Snowflakes
 

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