Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group

Streety McCarface said:
We'll get a better idea of ridership levels in the near future, but how many people who take the extension can safely say that the ridership of:
VMC is over 14K PPD
HWY 407 is over 3K PPD
PV is over 17K PPD
YU is over 30K PPD
FW is over 17K PPD
DVP is over 2K PPD?

If any say yes to any of these numbers, then I'll say this line is a huge success, because it means that ridership is still growing, despite being fairly strong initially, despite GO's continuous improvements to the Barrie line, and despite fare integration all along the line. While some may criticize HWY 407 and DVP for having really bad ridership, they are present for a future use. When I think of Downsview Park and it's comparison to the GO station ridership, 2K PPD is really good for most go stations, but terrible for TTC stations. Maybe they overbuilt the station for what it was planning on seeing, but we won't know until RER is up and running, if ever.

These numbers also point towards the huge need for fare integration, it shows that there is an extreme potential for this line to be really busy, since commuters are already choosing the subway over GO or driving despite the insanely high YRT/TTC fares, and the need for GO passengers to use the TTC now.
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VMC: 900 parking spots * 2 (morning and evening) = 1,800 passengers (assuming 1 passenger per vehicle. Plus 720 or so YRT passengers (20 riders per bus * 3 routes * 12). Plus 1440 VIVA/Zum passengers (just a number pulled out of thin air as I have not anecdotes about that ridership). Plus passenger pickup drop off 3,600 (again pulled out of thin air, based this figure on double the parking number). Plus walk ins from surrounding area 1,000 (also pulled out of thin air)

So my rough LOW estimate is 8,560. I would not be surprised to see ridership of 10,000 to 15,000 at VMC.
 
ViveleCanada said:
https://www.yorkregion.com/news-sto...pend-more-time-commuting-with-ttc-in-vaughan/

I somewhat don't understand the complaints with YRT service to York University.It's only a 15 minute walk between the Pioneer Village YRT Terminal and York University subway station. Realistically, a typical York student would only need to walk for 10 minutes to be able to reach the northernmost buildings on campus (from there you can use the underground tunnels) and it's not as if you would need to cross a highway to get onto campus.
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Now, if York U were smart, really smart, they would build an underground path to that station.
 
Streety McCarface said:
We'll get a better idea of ridership levels in the near future, but how many people who take the extension can safely say that the ridership of:
VMC is over 14K PPD
HWY 407 is over 3K PPD
PV is over 17K PPD
YU is over 30K PPD
FW is over 17K PPD
DVP is over 2K PPD?

If any say yes to any of these numbers, then I'll say this line is a huge success, because it means that ridership is still growing, despite being fairly strong initially, despite GO's continuous improvements to the Barrie line, and despite fare integration all along the line. While some may criticize HWY 407 and DVP for having really bad ridership, they are present for a future use. When I think of Downsview Park and it's comparison to the GO station ridership, 2K PPD is really good for most go stations, but terrible for TTC stations. Maybe they overbuilt the station for what it was planning on seeing, but we won't know until RER is up and running, if ever.

These numbers also point towards the huge need for fare integration, it shows that there is an extreme potential for this line to be really busy, since commuters are already choosing the subway over GO or driving despite the insanely high YRT/TTC fares, and the need for GO passengers to use the TTC now.
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Imagine how much more traffic there would be with a proper network in place if Finch West had traffic coming on the LRT from Finch, and Sheppard West had traffic from Sheppard-Yonge. Ah well, $60 billion later...$30 from Mrs Wynne and $30 more to come from Mr Ford and we’ll have an Ontario Line, but if you want to get to Humber College from Scarborough, don’t mind that jog down to Eglinton to get across the city. Two steps forward...
 
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Woodbridge_Heights said:
VMC: 900 parking spots * 2 (morning and evening) = 1,800 passengers (assuming 1 passenger per vehicle. Plus 720 or so YRT passengers (20 riders per bus * 3 routes * 12). Plus 1440 VIVA/Zum passengers (just a number pulled out of thin air as I have not anecdotes about that ridership). Plus passenger pickup drop off 3,600 (again pulled out of thin air, based this figure on double the parking number). Plus walk ins from surrounding area 1,000 (also pulled out of thin air)

So my rough LOW estimate is 8,560. I would not be surprised to see ridership of 10,000 to 15,000 at VMC.
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The numbers I mentioned are actual ridership numbers (Crazy, eh?), which is why 14K at VMC is so impressive to me. All your estimates seem very fair (Though I'd add another 1K to YRT and VIVA each). This is only after 1 year of service, which makes me wonder how much more numbers will improve.
 
TransitBart said:
Imagine how much more traffic there would be with a proper network in place if Finch West had traffic coming on the LRT from Finch and Sheppard West had traffic from Sheppard-Yonge. Ah well, $60 billion later...$30 from Mrs Wynne and $30 more to come from Mr Ford and we’ll have an Ontario Line, but if you want to get to Humber College from Scarborough, don’t mind that jog down to Eglinton to get across the city. Two steps forward...
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Part of the problem is they want to make Sheppard West an LRT. That is not a good way to go. That means a forced transfer from the Sheppard subway
 
Leo_Chan said:
Is that like a quintuple transfer? Bus to Sheppard West, LRT to Sheppard-Yonge, Subway to Don Mills, LRT to Morningside, Bus to Toronto Zoo.
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Pretty much.

I don't disagree with LRTs, streetcars or subways. One mode is not better than the other. However, it should be seamless to travel a given corridor. That is what makes the SRT such a problem.
 
nfitz said:
10? It's about a 250-metre straight walk south from the southern entrance to Pioneer Village station to the Life Sciences building. About 400 metres to the Campus Walk. Is there a fence in they way? yeah, they might have to walk 200-metres through the subway station first ... but closer to 5 minutes than 10!

The walking distance from Pioneer Village station actually looks slightly shorter to the Ross Building than it does from the York University station!

https://www.google.ca/maps/dir//43.....5075989,194m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!4m1!3e2?hl=en
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Yes the southern portion of the Pioneer Village Bus Terminal is only across the street from the northernmost buildings on campus, but it's a fare-paid zone so YRT riders would need to pay a TTC fare just to walk from one end of the station to another (at that point they might as well hop on the subway to go directly onto campus). A really simple solution would be to have the tap-out feature at the station where you will be given back your TTC fare if you tap-out at the same station. Although, I could easily see riders cheating the system by tapping out right after they tap in. Or an even simpler solution is just to accept fare media on both systems.

micheal_can said:
Now, if York U were smart, really smart, they would build an underground path to that station.
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As for a tunnel, the current tunnels under York commonly become occupied with the homeless in the winter so a tunnel that long would probably wind up becoming the world's longest homeless shelter. I really have no faith in York being able to maintain security in that sort of tunnel given that they don't seem capable of handling the current system. Anyways, in my opinion, this is more of a first world problem given it's only a 10 MINUTE walk between the terminal and campus buildings.
 
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ViveleCanada said:
The southern portion of the Pioneer Village Bus Terminal is only across the street from the northernmost buildings on campus, but it's a fare-paid zone so YRT riders would need to pay a TTC fare just to walk from one end of the station to another (at that point they might as well hop on the subway to go directly onto campus). A really simple solution would be to have the tap-out feature at the station where you will be given back your TTC fare if you tap-out at the same station. Although, I could easily see riders cheating the system by tapping out right after they tap in. Or an even simpler solution is just to accept fare media on both systems.

As for a tunnel, the current tunnels under York commonly become occupied with the homeless in the winter so a tunnel that long would probably wind up becoming the world's longest homeless shelter. I really have no faith in York being able to maintain security in that sort of tunnel given that they don't seem capable of handling the current system. Anyways, in my opinion, this is more of a first world problem given it's only a 5 MINUTE walk between the terminal and campus buildings.
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I understand the issues. However, I am thinking how in winter, an enclosed walkway to campus would give a single fare connection to the campus.
 
ViveleCanada said:
Yes the southern portion of the Pioneer Village Bus Terminal is only across the street from the northernmost buildings on campus, but it's a fare-paid zone so YRT riders would need to pay a TTC fare just to walk from one end of the station to another ...
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Ah ... now that sucks ... especially if it's pouring with rain or something.. I guess hoping for a walkway at the mezzanine level that was outside the fare-paid zone was just too much.

Hmm, seems to me that you can walk a long-way at Vaughan Centre underground without going through a fare gate - I'm guessing you can get from the bus terminal in the north there, to the Viva platforms in the south? (I haven't had reason to visit Pioneer Village station yet).
 
ViveleCanada said:
https://www.yorkregion.com/news-sto...pend-more-time-commuting-with-ttc-in-vaughan/

I somewhat don't understand the complaints with YRT service to York University.It's only a 15 minute walk between the Pioneer Village YRT Terminal and York University subway station. Realistically, a typical York student would only need to walk for 10 minutes to be able to reach the northernmost buildings on campus (from there you can use the underground tunnels) and it's not as if you would need to cross a highway to get onto campus.
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I walked further from the subway to U of T but I think the point of the complaint is that there is a subway station right in the middle of the campus that they are not allowed to access.

It doesn't matter if it's "only 15 minutes to walk" (which, sure, is easy enough if you're an able bodied person, which is also an assumption) but it's 15 minutes further than they should have to walk.

Everyone involved with this farce should be publicly shamed. I haven't been to Pioneer Village Station either but it sounds pretty clear: it wasn't designed to make things easier for riders or students. It was designed to make sure the transit agencies keep their little fiefdoms in order. I don't expect them to have designed a separate non-fare tunnel for people to cross the street - or maybe they should have a guarded checkpoint where have to show your papers? I do expect that anyone traveling through that station should be entirely unaware there is any border at all, and be able to go where they need to go.
It's an embarrassment.
 
nfitz said:
Ah ... now that sucks ... especially if it's pouring with rain or something.. I guess hoping for a walkway at the mezzanine level that was outside the fare-paid zone was just too much.
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The lack of a walkway is due to the high water table.

There are two concourses, one at each end of the station, allowing utilities and to allow future utilities and services to cross over the top of the station. The additional weight of backfill also helps reduce the impact of buoyancy caused by the high water table.
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https://www.ttc.ca/Spadina/Stations/Steeles_West_Station/index.jsp
 
There are tunnels under York, but few, if any, students know where the access points are located. Back in the late 90s, a few intrepid urban explorers went deep into the tunnels. They documented their adventures on their website. But I don't have the link on me and couldn't find it with some cursory Googling. Perhaps the website is down, it is quite old. In addition, the tunnels are mostly for maintenance, not weather sheltered passage under campus. Further, the few tunnels that were intended for foot traffic were the scene of student protests in the 70s (don't quote me on this, working from memory/rumour here). Accordingly, York administration sealed off and discouraged their use. In any case, the tunnels are the butt of frequent jokes among York students in the general vein of security concerns on campus. I doubt most students would venture into these tunnels. The one tunnel I have accessed leads from Central Square to the Lassonde engineering building and it is usually completely abandoned, even when foot traffic just one floor above it is high. I believe there are some steam tunnels east of the campus near the Chimneystack maintenance building. If I recall correctly, those were the tunnels canvassed by the aforementioned urban explorers. But they are nowhere near Pioneer Village Station and from the photos I've seen, are purely maintenance related, not at all suited for normal pedestrian traffic.
 
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