Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[toraerach]

One of the reasons that people seem to be clamoring for a subway to Mississauga over improved GO connections is that GO just isn't seen as frequent enough to be as convenient as a subway.

I'm sure a lot of people transfer at Kipling because they're cheap. I know I'm cheap enough to take a substantially longer trip to save money. Taking MT to Cooksville GO to Union to the TTC would cost you $4.55 more than taking MT to Islington/Kipling and directly transferring to the subway. It's $5.50 vs. $10.05 altogether. It's the same reason why most people coming from Scarborough on the RT will switch over to the B-D line rather than the GO line.

I thought that Mississauga's Chinatown might be a trip generator. I haven't been there since I was a kid, but apparently it's not as grand as I remember it being . Although the Avenue Hotel considers it to be a local attraction along with the McDonald's.

 

[CDL.TO]

I'm sure a lot of people transfer at Kipling because they're cheap. I know I'm cheap enough to take a substantially longer trip to save money. Taking MT to Cooksville GO to Union to the TTC would cost you $4.55 more than taking MT to Islington/Kipling and directly transferring to the subway. It's $5.50 vs. $10.05 altogether. It's the same reason why most people coming from Scarborough on the RT will switch over to the B-D line rather than the GO line.

Fare policies aren't written in stone! They are a lot easier to change than physical infrastructure. There's no reason why an upgraded GO service between Lisgar and Kipling couldn't simply accept MT fares, allowing MT to switch to a bus network that radiates out from the GO stations, much like with the TTC subway.

The number of buses that would be freed up by such a move could potentially pay for the subsidies required to reduce GO fares.

 

[Anth]

I thought that Mississauga's Chinatown might be a trip generator. I haven't been there since I was a kid, but apparently it's not as grand as I remember it being .

Hah, unfortunately not. It's just a themed strip mall.

 

[doady]

That said, I personally don't see 10-15 minute service from Square One to Union any time soon. There's no way in hell they're going to diver the Milton line with a tunnel while they're still using the bilevels. One, they're freaking huge, two they're diesel.

GO could easily switch to different train cars. It is not a big deal. What would be a big deal though would be a subway extension to Sq One that interferes with transit on Hurontario. That is unacceptable.

And if the subway is built in Mississauga, it means that the 2nd and 3rd busiest transit corridors in the 905, Yonge and Dundas, will both have much better transit than the busiest and densest corridor by far, which is "only" getting LRT.

Fare policies aren't written in stone! They are a lot easier to change than physical infrastructure. There's no reason why an upgraded GO service between Lisgar and Kipling couldn't simply accept MT fares, allowing MT to switch to a bus network that radiates out from the GO stations, much like with the TTC subway

This is not a good idea. First of all, GO stations are much farther apart than TTC stations. Second of all, most GO stations are located in the middle of nowhere and difficult to access. And lastly, the TTC bus system is still grid-based despite serving the subway. The subway system itself is part of the grid.

MT works because it is a grid-based system also, and realigning bus routes to serve GO would be a huge inconvenience to most riders. Remember most people in Mississauga work closer to home, unlike in York Region, and so it probably not worth redesigning the whole bus system just to better serve GO.

 

[CDL.TO]

This is not a good idea. First of all, GO stations are much farther apart than TTC stations. Second of all, most GO stations are located in the middle of nowhere and difficult to access. And lastly, the TTC bus system is still grid-based despite serving the subway. The subway system itself is part of the grid.

MT works because it is a grid-based system also, and realigning bus routes to serve GO would be a huge inconvenience to most riders. Remember most people in Mississauga work closer to home, unlike in York Region, and so it probably not worth redesigning the whole bus system just to better serve GO.

Dixie, Cawthra, Cooksville, MCC, Streetville, Meadowvale...

These locations are all on (or just off of) major arterials and would not require major transit re-routings. Most of Mississauga's busiest routes serve these stations already. I wouldn't consider any of those stations to be "middle of nowhere". Just like in Toronto, re-routing buses to serve rail stations does not mean disassembling the grid. What it does mean is that someone heading from Meadowvale to MCC would be routed onto a faster, more comfortable train for part of their trip.

 

[drum118]

Dixie, Cawthra, Cooksville, MCC, Streetville, Meadowvale...

These locations are all on (or just off of) major arterials and would not require major transit re-routings. Most of Mississauga's busiest routes serve these stations already. I wouldn't consider any of those stations to be "middle of nowhere". Just like in Toronto, re-routing buses to serve rail stations does not mean disassembling the grid. What it does mean is that someone heading from Meadowvale to MCC would be routed onto a faster, more comfortable train for part of their trip.

Lets see...............Dixie over 5+ minute walk from the 1's let alone the 5's. The 5 has poor service outside peak.

Cawthra has no real bus service. Depending where you put a station that connect to Dundas, it will be a 5 minute walk or more. 1 does has good service with the 81.

Cooksville has good service on 19, but falls off for the 61. It's a 5 minute walk from the 28 to get too the station. Ridership on the 2 shuttles is poor.

Erindale is about a 5 minute walk to either the 9, 38, 6 or 26, but all have poor service.

Streetsville is a 5+ minute walk to either the 9 or 44 that has poor service. You have 49 and 10 using the station a peak time as well adding more time to riders travel time who use the 10.

Meadowvale only see peak service only and is no where land.

Lisgar sees the 38 now 7 days a week. There is new peak service for weekday only.

Getting to Meadowvale to get to MCC is a pain in the rear and not worth the time to use GO in the first place. It takes the #9 35 minutes to get terminal to terminal. Add in the time that takes a rider to get there, they could be looking at an hour travel time. It ends up been a no winner for riders in the Meadowvalle area until the 109 hits the road next month. GO will never cut the mustard to service MCC with good service as it stands now.

Go and talk to the Burlington Route 1 riders as what they think about the off route trip they have to take to get to the Aldershot station considering next to no riders get on/off at the station in the first place. It is about a 10 minute walk from the station to Plains Rd. It's a waste of their time.

I have issues when major riders are ignore for a few ppl who use GO or other transit routes that forces riders off the grid system.

As long riders have to pay more money to use more than system, very few ppl will use a GO-? off grid service.

 

[unimaginative2]

Drum... If the GO line were remade into an actual rapid-transit-frequency service, bus routes could be changed (while retaining the grid!) to better funnel people to the stations.

As CDL has said, people wouldn't have to pay more to change to GO. Fare integration would be an obvious prerequisite to such a service.

 

[CDL.TO]

The mentality that we often have to deal with - that it's possible to spend a billion dollars building a subway line but yet it's impossible lay an asphalt path, to move an asphalt platform a couple dozen metres, or to re-route a bus - is truly confounding.

The TTC suffers from this mentality as well. See proposed Eglinton line stops at Emmett, Jane, and Leslie.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

The TTC also suffers from the mentality that it's impossible to spend a billion dollars building a subway line...

 

[doady]

Cooksville station is in a good location now, but it would have to be moved if there is a diversion of the Milton line to MCC, and I promise you the new location will be nowhere new as convenient.

Erindale is also in a great location, but again, like Cooksville it will also have to be moved for a diversion to MCC.

Meadowvale is in a terrible location, being only accessible from Millcreek. As a station designed solely for motorists, it is yet another good example of how GO doesn't give a shit about bus riders. A station at Derry would make more sense.

Dixie is MT's fourth busiest corridor, yet the station seems designed to discourage as many bus riders as possible from transferring. And so, it is not surprising this station is one the least busiest of all the GO stations in Mississauga.

Streetsville is almost as bad as Meadowvale and Dixie, again designed minimize the amount of pedestrians and bus riders from accessing the station.

So an MT bus network centred around GO is not going to happen. Not because of MT, but because of GO. GO hates MT. They hate all local transit systems. They hate serving transit terminals. Just look how the Meadowvale and Bramalea GO stations have York U bus service, but the nearby transit terminals do not. That is why Brampton just had to start its own university bus route from Bramalea.

GO simply does not want riders transferring from local systems.

 

[CDL.TO]

When the talk is about converting the Milton GO line in to what would effectively be a Mississauga subway... these things can be changed! They're not written in stone. Stations can be moved (or not moved, in the case of Cooksville).

When the rebuilt the Deux Montages line in Montreal a few years back they didn't even change the operation of the line, but they relocated and rebuilt a bunch of stations. No problem, easily done.

The mandate of GO today and for the past 40 years has been nothing more than a parking lot shuttle service. MoveOntario and Metrolinx is talking about changing to mandate of GO, so it can be a real urban service.

GO huts can be moved... bus loops can (are often are) rebuilt... GO management can change... and so can GO's mandate.

 

[Transportfan]

Yes, but from the Bloor subway the bus routes go in all different directions... TTC routes to Sherway, MT routes on Dundas, Bloor, Burnhamthorpe, 427 to Eglinton, etc. There is no clear preferred route. This contrasts to Yonge where the bulk of buses coming out of Finch go north on Yonge. Many say that Dundas would be the preferred route of a subway to MCC but not a single route goes from Kipling subway station to MCC via Dundas.

Dundas would have been the transit corridor in Missy if MCC had been built where it logically should have been--at Dundas and Hurontario. That would also have made it practical to extend the subway into western Missy instead of a detour up Hurontario.

Not to mention that that also would have made MCC more urban like NYCC instead of a tower-in-the-park downtown around a mall.

 

[toraerach]

Dundas would have been the transit corridor in Missy if MCC had been built where it logically should have been--at Dundas and Hurontario. That would also have made it practical to extend the subway into western Missy instead of a detour up Hurontario.

Not to mention that that also would have made MCC more urban like NYCC instead of a tower-in-the-park downtown around a mall.

What's to stop a new more urban development to take place at Dundas and Hurontario? A few rezonings and you can extend MCC all the way down to Dundas and further. I mean, NYC has grown to a similar length (Finch and Sheppard, and Burnhamthorpe and Dundas are both one concession apart, right?).

Otherwise, I would imagine that with two LRTs serving the Hurontario & Dundas intersection will become increasingly attractive to developers. A new centre could potentially develop (Hurontario Village or something like that everyone will still refer to as "Hurontario and Dundas" but looks good on a BIA website).

Of course this would require backing from the city and who knows if that's the kind of development council wants to see.

 

[unimaginative2]

The TTC also suffers from the mentality that it's impossible to spend a billion dollars building a subway line...

But very possible to spend $5 billion on a streetcar line!

 

[doady]

Dundas would have been the transit corridor in Missy if MCC had been built where it logically should have been--at Dundas and Hurontario.

What difference would it make? The entire Dundas-Hurontario area is already zoned for high-density and mixed-use.
http://www6.mississauga.ca/onlinemaps/planbldg/missplan/cookvill.pdf

This is is the reason I prefer to have LRTs on Hurontario and Dundas instead of subway extension.

Otherwise, I would imagine that with two LRTs serving the Hurontario & Dundas intersection will become increasingly attractive to developers. A new centre could potentially develop (Hurontario Village or something like that everyone will still refer to as "Hurontario and Dundas" but looks good on a BIA website).

This area already has a name. It is called Cooksville. It is the original designated downtown of Mississauga from the 60's until the 80's. It is the "four corners" of Mississauga.