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TTC: Yonge North Subway Extension (Finch-Richmond Hill) (Unfunded/Planned)

micheal_can

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That's the YRT/GO terminal, not the TTC terminal. The TTC bus terminal is south of the hydro ROW.

I know. However, once the line is extended, that area will become useless. Would the TTC build that up as their bus terminal and then sell the existing one to be redeveloped?
 

sche

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I know. However, once the line is extended, that area will become useless. Would the TTC build that up as their bus terminal and then sell the existing one to be redeveloped?
I think it would probably be better to turn the GO/YRT terminal into park space and replace a bunch of the parking with park space while we're at it.
The transfer between the subway and the GO/YRT terminal is far worse than the transfer to the existing TTC terminal, and also Hydro would no doubt fight against any sort of enclosed bus terminal under their wires, so it would be almost impossible to get a proper enclosed bus terminal where the current GO/YRT terminal is.
That said, the existing TTC bus terminal will probably be larger than needed after the subway is extended, given that most of the TTC routes using the terminal would no longer serve it. I imagine half of it could get demolished and redeveloped, or maybe a developer builds over the whole thing and builds a smaller bus terminal replacement inside, like CIBC Square or York Mills.
 

micheal_can

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I think it would probably be better to turn the GO/YRT terminal into park space and replace a bunch of the parking with park space while we're at it.
The transfer between the subway and the GO/YRT terminal is far worse than the transfer to the existing TTC terminal, and also Hydro would no doubt fight against any sort of enclosed bus terminal under their wires, so it would be almost impossible to get a proper enclosed bus terminal where the current GO/YRT terminal is.
That said, the existing TTC bus terminal will probably be larger than needed after the subway is extended, given that most of the TTC routes using the terminal would no longer serve it. I imagine half of it could get demolished and redeveloped, or maybe a developer builds over the whole thing and builds a smaller bus terminal replacement inside, like CIBC Square or York Mills.

The following is a list from Wikipedia of the TTC bus routes that currently stop there.

36AFinch WestWestbound to Finch West station
36BWestbound to Humberwood Boulevard via Finch West station
39AFinch EastEastbound to Neilson Road
39BEastbound to Old Finch Avenue and Morningview Trail
39CEastbound to Victoria Park Avenue and Gordon Baker Road
(Rush hour service)
42ACummerEastbound to Middlefield Road and Dynamic Drive
42CEastbound to Victoria Park Avenue
(Rush hour service)
53ASteeles EastEastbound to Staines Road
53BEastbound to Markham Road
60ASteeles WestWestbound to Pioneer Village station
60BWestbound to Martin Grove Road via Pioneer Village station
60DWestbound to Highway 27 via Pioneer Village station
97FYongeNorthbound to Steeles Avenue and southbound to Davisville station
(Transfer to southbound buses at stops on the street outside the station)
125DrewryWestbound to Bathurst Street (Torresdale)
939AFinch ExpressEastbound to Scarborough Centre station
939BWestbound to Finch West station
939CEastbound to Morningside Heights
(Rush hour service)
953ASteeles East ExpressEastbound to Staines Road
(Rush hour service)
953BEastbound to Markham Road
(Rush hour service)
960Steeles West ExpressWestbound to Pioneer Village station
(Rush hour service)
320YongeBlue Night service; Northbound to Steeles Avenue and southbound to Queens Quay
(Transfer to buses at stops on the street outside the station)
336Finch WestBlue Night service; Westbound to Woodbine Race Track via Humber College
(Transfer to buses at stops on the street outside the station)
339Finch EastBlue Night service; Eastbound to Markham Road
(Transfer to buses at stops on the street outside the station)

Here is my thoughts.53x, 60x, 953xx and 960 would all stop going to the station. That leaves 36x, 39x, 42x, 97F, 125, 939x, 320, 336, and 339.. Some of these may get new routing and also not stop at Finch anymore. I would suspect that YRT/VIVA would no longer service Finch as well. Some GO routes likely would be gone too. It begs the question as to the need for such a large bus facility. It also begs the question about the need for so much commuter parking.

I could see as part of the construction of YN, Finch Station getting a revamp. This revamp could include a new bus terminal for the TTC located at the current GO/YRT terminal. The footprint could be the same size or smaller than the existing GO/YRT terminal. For GO operations, if it stays, it could be moved over to the kiss and ride area. This could maintain the fare zone situation. Then, the old TTC bus station could be sold for redevelopment. The old parking areas could see a reduction as well, however, it could keep the access to Willowdale Ave
 

north-of-anything

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I feel like local YRT services should be made to end at Steeles since there will be a station there (with VIVA and other commuter services ending at Richmond Hill Centre). Also, I think 42x and 125 wouldn't stop at Finch anymore, since they can meet Line 1 at the Newtonbrook station.
 

11th

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The following is a list from Wikipedia of the TTC bus routes that currently stop there.

36AFinch WestWestbound to Finch West station
36BWestbound to Humberwood Boulevard via Finch West station
39AFinch EastEastbound to Neilson Road
39BEastbound to Old Finch Avenue and Morningview Trail
39CEastbound to Victoria Park Avenue and Gordon Baker Road
(Rush hour service)
42ACummerEastbound to Middlefield Road and Dynamic Drive
42CEastbound to Victoria Park Avenue
(Rush hour service)
53ASteeles EastEastbound to Staines Road
53BEastbound to Markham Road
60ASteeles WestWestbound to Pioneer Village station
60BWestbound to Martin Grove Road via Pioneer Village station
60DWestbound to Highway 27 via Pioneer Village station
97FYongeNorthbound to Steeles Avenue and southbound to Davisville station
(Transfer to southbound buses at stops on the street outside the station)
125DrewryWestbound to Bathurst Street (Torresdale)
939AFinch ExpressEastbound to Scarborough Centre station
939BWestbound to Finch West station
939CEastbound to Morningside Heights
(Rush hour service)
953ASteeles East ExpressEastbound to Staines Road
(Rush hour service)
953BEastbound to Markham Road
(Rush hour service)
960Steeles West ExpressWestbound to Pioneer Village station
(Rush hour service)
320YongeBlue Night service; Northbound to Steeles Avenue and southbound to Queens Quay
(Transfer to buses at stops on the street outside the station)
336Finch WestBlue Night service; Westbound to Woodbine Race Track via Humber College
(Transfer to buses at stops on the street outside the station)
339Finch EastBlue Night service; Eastbound to Markham Road
(Transfer to buses at stops on the street outside the station)

Here is my thoughts.53x, 60x, 953xx and 960 would all stop going to the station. That leaves 36x, 39x, 42x, 97F, 125, 939x, 320, 336, and 339.. Some of these may get new routing and also not stop at Finch anymore. I would suspect that YRT/VIVA would no longer service Finch as well. Some GO routes likely would be gone too. It begs the question as to the need for such a large bus facility. It also begs the question about the need for so much commuter parking.

I could see as part of the construction of YN, Finch Station getting a revamp. This revamp could include a new bus terminal for the TTC located at the current GO/YRT terminal. The footprint could be the same size or smaller than the existing GO/YRT terminal. For GO operations, if it stays, it could be moved over to the kiss and ride area. This could maintain the fare zone situation. Then, the old TTC bus station could be sold for redevelopment. The old parking areas could see a reduction as well, however, it could keep the access to Willowdale Ave
Only the (non Blue Night) Finch routes (36, 39/939) need to stop at the bus terminal. 97F doesn't need to serve Finch; it only does so because Finch is a current line 1 terminus. 42 and 125 can interline/merge and stop at Cummer/Drewry.
 

Rainforest

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For GO operations, if it stays, it could be moved over to the kiss and ride area. This could maintain the fare zone situation.

Finch will no longer serve as a GO terminal; most of the northern GO buses will operate off the Richmond Hill subway terminus.

GO might choose to retain some trips along Yonge for a one-seat connection to the York Mills terminal and the 401 East and West GO services. In that case, their buses running on Yonge will just stop on-street at Finch. Just like they stop on-street at Sheppard today.
 

micheal_can

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Finch will no longer serve as a GO terminal; most of the northern GO buses will operate off the Richmond Hill subway terminus.

GO might choose to retain some trips along Yonge for a one-seat connection to the York Mills terminal and the 401 East and West GO services. In that case, their buses running on Yonge will just stop on-street at Finch. Just like they stop on-street at Sheppard today.

Which makes moving the TTC bus station even more realistic.
 

Haydenpoon

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Finch will no longer serve as a GO terminal; most of the northern GO buses will operate off the Richmond Hill subway terminus.

GO might choose to retain some trips along Yonge for a one-seat connection to the York Mills terminal and the 401 East and West GO services. In that case, their buses running on Yonge will just stop on-street at Finch. Just like they stop on-street at Sheppard today.
Only one (route 32) head north from Finch GO Bus Terminal. 67 also technically went north after getting onto 401. All the other GO buses go down to 401 and head east-west.
 

toronto647

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Can someone please clarify whether the RFQ has been issued for Yonge North Subway Extension?

According to Infrastructure Ontario (IO) it is supposed to have been issued during Fall 2020. Technically they would have until December 21 (first day of Winter is Dec 22). Considering COVID is getting crazier in the city is it safe to say the RFQ will be pushed to Winter or possibly even Spring 2021? Also factoring in this extension is not as high up a priority as the Scarborough Extension, Ontario Line and Eglinton West LRT.

Link to IO report confirming the aforementioned information Page 1 https://www.infrastructureontario.ca/uploadedFiles/_CONTENT/News/2_Market_Update/Sept. 2020 P3 Market Update.pdf
 

Coolstar

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Can someone please clarify whether the RFQ has been issued for Yonge North Subway Extension?

According to Infrastructure Ontario (IO) it is supposed to have been issued during Fall 2020. Technically they would have until December 21 (first day of Winter is Dec 22). Considering COVID is getting crazier in the city is it safe to say the RFQ will be pushed to Winter or possibly even Spring 2021? Also factoring in this extension is not as high up a priority as the Scarborough Extension, Ontario Line and Eglinton West LRT.

Link to IO report confirming the aforementioned information Page 1 https://www.infrastructureontario.ca/uploadedFiles/_CONTENT/News/2_Market_Update/Sept. 2020 P3 Market Update.pdf
The RFQ has not been released yet. What I can say however is that the Initial Business Case for Yonge North is pretty much delayed to early 2021.

Snip-it_1607386557233.jpg
 

W. K. Lis

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Here's some interesting bits of history. From link.

The North Yonge Radial Railway was on its own right-of-way. Unfortunately, it was not a segregated right-of-way and mostly on a single shared track. There were passing tracks, where the radial cars had to wait for a passing car in the other direction.


North Yonge Railway car #413 barrels southbound past the Steeles siding, towards Glen Echo.


From link.


Stop 1A near the Jolly Miller Hotel 3885 Yonge Street looking south just south of York Mills Side Road,
North York Township.

The Department of Highways, in the 1940's, eyed the railway right-of-way as a means to widen Highway 11 (Yonge Street).

If they had kept the right-of-way, doubled the tracks, modernized the vehicles, and segregated the right-of-way, we could have had a rapid transit line all the way up to Lake Simcoe.
 

Transportfan

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If they had kept the right-of-way, doubled the tracks, modernized the vehicles, and segregated the right-of-way, we could have had a rapid transit line all the way up to Lake Simcoe.

The problem is there was no demand after the war due to lack of density and high car ownership.
 

TDE

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Also, I think 42x and 125 wouldn't stop at Finch anymore, since they can meet Line 1 at the Newtonbrook station.
Chiming in late, from what I recall reading, there is an island bus loop planned for Cummer/Drewry for both routes to service west of Yonge. So, I think they may remain separate... likely interline, with some exceptions due to the differences in ridership. But yes, anything for Finch to access would be by subway or Yonge bus at that point.
 
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