Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

lead82 said:
Makes me think that’s no progress will he made on any of these projects. They don’t want to explicitly cancel them and get the wrath of the ‘People’ nor do they want to spend the money on public transit. This is the best approach their advisers have given them. Stall stall stall. Then pitch it again in 2022 for their reelection.
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I'm plenty cynical but even I don't think they actually WANT to cancel or delay. They may want to put pressure on Trudeau for funding but they didn't go through the rigamarole of uploading responsibility to the province - LITERALLY taking responsibility - so they can cancel or delay.

I do think that they either don't get that another review, another plan, wastes more time or that (less likely) they think they can stop, take a few months to review, and then come up with something that saves time at the back end. I don't buy the latter because of who we're dealing with. Rob famously kept saying he BUILT (past tense) the Scarborough subway and neither he nor Doug seem to comprehend that they took projects that would now be operational and threw them into a decade of limbo. The Yonge subway has basically been in stasis but the SSE and DRL keep getting LESS built the longer time goes on.

I'd be open to a plan that would do things faster, I just don't think there is one. These are all made up dates. Ontario Line by 2027? Sure, whatever. Sounds great. And now DOUG FORD wants to see if things could be built faster if they are aboveground??! Imagine if he'd thought of that in 2010.

Nah, they don't want to cancel things and stall. They're just dumb and/or incompetent.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
This makes complete sense, which is why it will never get done.
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It really is a shame that we're so focused, in Toronto, on building entire lines in one go rather than allowing things to be gradually built over time. I wonder if it's because of how our approvals process for TPAPs and EAs function whereby you essentially have to have a fairly detailed idea on what you want to build prior to building it? it's much more difficult to quantify ridership and other things through a gradual implementation where the option for change is acknowledged, rather than a defined concept that has the assumptions already laid out.
 
I think it's a political issue; which is also a funding issue. We leave things too long, first of all. If Yonge had been extended to Steeles, or the DRL built from Pape to Queen, back in the 80s/90s/00s, no one would think it's weird to further north or west now.
But to get elected you have to have a BIG IDEA - whether it's Transit City or Smart Track or The Big Move or whatever- and then when the $ comes, you have to strike while the iron is hot. While I'm not saying technocrats should be in charge, per se, I think pretty much every failure to properly develop, extend and nurture the network - particularly at a regional scale - can be traced back to the vagaries of the political cycle.

That means the key (not breaking news!) is to disconnect transit planning from politics (and therefore, Metrolinx from answering to cabinet). They could then build the individual pieces in a sensible sequence. Combine this with predictable funding and you have the means to start, and keep building out the network, piece by piece over time. Very different from Doug Ford convening a panel to review Wynne-era plans (some of which are in 2nd and 3rd iterations) which themselves could be reviewed by his successor if these projects don't have shovels int he ground before his time is up, in as soon as 3 years.

(Same obviously goes for Fords trashing Transit City, Tory prioritizing ST over DRL, Harris stopping Eglinton and Sheppard, Libs facilitating the Scarborough reversal etc. etc. etc. etc.)
 
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These projects are all going from financial close to service in 5 years?
It's a new age, folks.

Also, kind of interesting (if not surprising) Scarborough is a bit ahead of Yonge North, though they're all bunched up nicely, albeit in reverse order of how much actual work has been done to date.
 
TJ O'Pootertoot said:
These projects are all going from financial close to service in 5 years?
It's a new age, folks.

Also, kind of interesting (if not surprising) Scarborough is a bit ahead of Yonge North, though they're all bunched up nicely, albeit in reverse order of how much actual work has been done to date.
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If they are all financial closed before the next election, at the least they are safe from cancellation by the next government.
 
cplchanb said:
MIke Harris would like to have a word with you.
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I find it very doubtful the PC's would want a repeat of Mike Harris given that they are constantly pointed out for Eglinton not getting a subway earlier. For this particular project, its even more doubtful the PC's would want to cancel it as it goes right into an area where they have a strong voting base. This along with the fact that the bill for this project will probably be split four ways (Richmond Hill, Toronto, Ontario, Canada) so funding is much easier, similar to how the TYSSE seemed to just pop into our chequebook.
 
ViveleCanada said:
I find it very doubtful the PC's would want a repeat of Mike Harris given that they are constantly pointed out for Eglinton not getting a subway earlier. For this particular project, its even more doubtful the PC's would want to cancel it as it goes right into an area where they have a strong voting base. This along with the fact that the bill for this project will probably be split four ways (Richmond Hill, Toronto, Ontario, Canada) so funding is much easier, similar to how the TYSSE seemed to just pop into our chequebook.
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The worst thing is, you may be right. This could be done sooner than most other projects precisely because it would be good vote pandering.
 
ViveleCanada said:
This along with the fact that the bill for this project will probably be split four ways (Richmond Hill, Toronto, Ontario, Canada) so funding is much easier, similar to how the TYSSE seemed to just pop into our chequebook.
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Just to be clear: York Region would be on the hook, not the Town of Richmond Hill (which. FWIW, on a per-metre basis will have FAR less subway in it than Toronto, Markham or Vaughan).

I'd say all of these projects are about as safe as any transit project gets in our little neck of the woods. Scarborough is a hot potato but they're gonna build SOMETHING, depending on where the roulette ball lands. Same with the DRL, the actual form of which obviously remains somewhat indeterminate. The Yonge extension is the most concrete with only the number of stations really subject to debate at this point.

But while changing/reviewing these projects seems to be a local sport, actually cancelling any of them would be political suicide.
 
Mmmm, I didn't say it's how you decide where to build them. I clarified which level of municipal government would be paying/in charge of the project and clarified that, geographically speaking, Richmond Hill isn't the "dominant" location anyway. So even if the local municipalities were paying, as opposed to the regional level, they still wouldn't be the main funder. i.e. the "subway to Richmond Hill" is roughly 30% in Toronto, 60% in Markham/Vaughan and 10% in RH. which is to say, 30% in Toronto and 70% in York Region, for $ purposes.

Anyway, we all know that the WHERE is very much politically determined around here. The sequencing, funding and construction might just get done sensibly when all is said and done but we'll see.
 
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