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TTC: Yonge North Subway Extension (Finch-Richmond Hill) (Funded/Planned)

toronto647

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Does anyone know how much the Cummer station will cost to be added? Can we not get some TOC around there to fund it?

My personal thought is closure to the June election Ford will go to the Cummer area and give the station for votes. Metrolinx is fully planning as if Cummer is being built so I am sure it will be one way or another. They have several years to figure out Cummer and sooner or later funding will come. Just my thoughts.

Do you think Cummer will be built?
 

44 North

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Does anyone know how much the Cummer station will cost to be added? Can we not get some TOC around there to fund it?

My personal thought is closure to the June election Ford will go to the Cummer area and give the station for votes. Metrolinx is fully planning as if Cummer is being built so I am sure it will be one way or another. They have several years to figure out Cummer and sooner or later funding will come. Just my thoughts.

Do you think Cummer will be built?

Looks like people are arguing that 50m deep subaqueous stations can be built for free. If the logic applies to the much-less-complex Cummer then it should cost negative money to build (free plus we make money). Seems like it's guaranteed to be built.
 

steviej1

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Yeah, but the letter says that it would acquire TOC funds to build the station. If they aren't able to secure the TOC funds, which might very well be the case due to it's location, it might not happen.

Also, there is an election in June. A Liberal government can clearly undo this decision.
 

TJ O'Pootertoot

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I think people are making this more complex than it needs to be.

The Province has already made TOC deals at Bridge and High Tech and we've seen the development plans and they are very substantial. It's true we haven't been provided with numbers so that's an opening to poke a hole in the argument but that is the argument the Province is making: The Bridge and High Tech stations were built above-grade to fit within the existing funding enevelope. And so they're making enough off-set costs around those 2 stations there to add a station elsewhere on the line. That station is Royal Orchard.

Getting into NIMBYism also misses the point because the whole point of the program is that by sticking its neck into the planning process, the Province can circumvent that. This government has shown no hesitancy to use MZOs and so if they are making a deal with developers to grant them extra density near a station, in exchange for funds, clearly that is a tool they have in their pocket.

There is already a failry substantial development proposal at Yonge and Royal Orchard. Maybe the Province makes a deal there or maybe it's a nearby site. Either way, probably the local residents will complain and feel they made a deal with the devil when they see 50 and 60 storeys going up to justify the station they wanted to make up for the tunnel they won't even notice. But if the Province makes a deal, the Province will make sure the development gets approved (and has legal authority to do so) and it won't be up to Royal Orchard's TOC to provide enough $ to justify itself.

(And, per the previous post - the PCs hold Thornhill. There is no way the Liberals would even remotely the idea of killing a station in the riding. If anything, the election mproves the odds of Cummer getting one too. Heck, one thing we know about Del Duca is how much he likes attending transit ribbon-cuttings. As new Premier, more new stations=more ribbon cutting :))
 
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Undead

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On the contrary, I'd say the Liberals would be open to cutting RO station because they know they'll never win Thornhill anyway.
Getting into NIMBYism also misses the point because the whole point of the program is that by sticking its neck into the planning process, the Province can circumvent that. This government has shown no hesitancy to use MZOs and so if they are making a deal with developers to grant them extra density near a station, in exchange for funds, clearly that is a tool they have in their pocket.
Given how much they've done to appease locals, I don't know if they'll be upzoning the area enough for TOD to pay for the station. Yes, the local plazas and underused land will be redeveloped. The province will override whatever local zoning regulations say and ignore the nimby complaints. But I doubt the low density areas will be touched.
 
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TJ O'Pootertoot

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On the contrary, I'd say the Liberals would be open to cutting RO station because they know they'll never win Thornhill anyway.
First of all, I assure you the Liberal campaign strategists don't look at this the way you do.
The riding was Liberal for a long time (until 2007), and especially on the east side of Yonge Street.
Also, the PC incumbent isn't running again.
Also, the Yonge extension was a McGuinty project before Ford took over (and then changed the alignment to go under Royal Orchard for his developer cronies, if you listen to the local rhetoric).
If you think that the Liberals can't win, or more to the point, that they would be so suicidal that they would cut themselves off at the knees and not even try in an inner-905 riding that is next door to the party leader's riding - the party leader who used to be Transportaiton Minister - with these circumstances...well, I don't know why they'd even run in an election at all. Might as well just agree to grant Ford another four years.

(None of which is to say I think the Libs will take Thornhill but, holy cow, you'd have to be the worst campaign strategist on earth to not even try.)

Given how much they've done to appease locals, I don't know if they'll be upzoning the area enough for TOD to pay for the station.

Well, first, go tell the locals they've been appeased and see if they agree. But more to the point, we're now talking about two things: TOC and TOD.
TOC is, how much $ is the Province getting from working with developers at the station sites themselves.
The second question is how much intensification will a new station bring, more generally, to the Royal Orchard area.

In terms of TOC, Royal Orchard has that one big plaza and there's a couple of other small sites given that the new alignment actually moved the station box a bit south (and quite a bit underground). In terms of TOD, someone else posted this way back somewhere but Markham undertook a study, hoping to justify the Royal Orchard station, in which they looked at this very thing. Here it is:

And here's a pic of how they see maximizing Royal Orchard...
Screen Shot 2022-01-15 at 2.45.21 PM.png


So, you're quite right they'er not going far into the neighbourhood at all. And they say they can achive subway-level desnities nonetheless. As I said, I'm not totally sure I buy that (for one, there's pretty limited development potential on the Vaughan side of Yonge) but we should still be clear on where the Province is going to stick its nose in and upzone (only the immediate station site) and then how far Markham is willing to go to facilitate density around the station (somehwat...but not tooooo much).
 

Undead

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Well, first, go tell the locals they've been appeased and see if they agree.
That's sort of what I'm getting at; the province won't go out of their way to grant more density/blanket upzone when the locals aren't happy even with the significant goodies they got.

So, you're quite right they'er not going far into the neighbourhood at all. And they say they can achive subway-level desnities nonetheless. As I said, I'm not totally sure I buy that (for one, there's pretty limited development potential on the Vaughan side of Yonge) but we should still be clear on where the Province is going to stick its nose in and upzone (only the immediate station site) and then how far Markham is willing to go to facilitate density around the station (somehwat...but not tooooo much).
Yes, that's what I was trying to say.

(None of which is to say I think the Libs will take Thornhill but, holy cow, you'd have to be the worst campaign strategist on earth to not even try.)
Alright, I'll let this one rest.
 

steviej1

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For some reason they haven't updated the Yonge North Subway Extension page on the Metrolinx site about this, it still only says four stations.
 

ARG1

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For some reason they haven't updated the Yonge North Subway Extension page on the Metrolinx site about this, it still only says four stations.
Metrolinx isn't one to be up to date on their sites, plus it wasn't an "official" announcement.
 

Tuck

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Hmm.

This is good news. I kind of figured this might happen, and it *might* still happen with Cummer too. The fact that Metrolinx was still presenting maps with those two listed as potential stations made me think they had not completely given up on building them. Cummer is close enough to finch that dropping it isn't the worst thing in the world. I'm glad this one made it in as the gap between stations was going to be far too large.
 

steviej1

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Hmm.

This is good news. I kind of figured this might happen, and it *might* still happen with Cummer too. The fact that Metrolinx was still presenting maps with those two listed as potential stations made me think they had not completely given up on building them. Cummer is close enough to finch that dropping it isn't the worst thing in the world. I'm glad this one made it in as the gap between stations was going to be far too large.
Yeah, but it doesn't seem official yet.
 

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