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TTC: Yonge North Subway Extension (Finch-Richmond Hill) (Funded/Planned)

W. K. Lis

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Do you guys ever think parts of York Region will be amalgamated into Toronto in the future like how Scarborough, Etobicoke, etc were all amalgamated into Toronto?
Would amalgamating Mississauga into Toronto result in a Line 2 extension into Mississauga (or at least Sherway Gardens)?
 

nfitz

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Would amalgamating Mississauga into Toronto result in a Line 2 extension into Mississauga (or at least Sherway Gardens)?
I doubt that Mississauga would ever be merged. But I also expect Line 2 will be extended into Mississauga eventually.

Sherway Gardens is in Toronto - so nothing has ever precluded an extension to there.
 

denfromoakvillemilton

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One important omission/bit of context from the report: the Region's $1.12B is actually mostly coming from development charges (in case you were wondering how a tax generating $12M a year helps them pay that amount). The proposed levy is a smaller chunk of the funding but they're still calculating how that breaks down.

Also, it's not on the Metrolinx or TTC agenda so I doubt he'll see it but this should make Steve Munro and his crowd smile with delight and put some champagne on ice:
View attachment 362249
It will also take some wind out of the sails of the people who like to crow that suburbanites shouldn't be allowed to steal subway seats from tax-paying Toronto citizens. With York Region actually paying a share, that argument becomes moot.

I mean, it’s said with a disparaging tone - but I think that’s a reasonable criticism, and I’m glad York Region has to pay its share of the operating expenses.

It's reasonable in that the only thing resembling a substantive argument has been "I'm a taxpayer and you're not!" but it's also always been clear that whether it's an ad hoc deal like this or a more regional solution, that funding should be done more fairly. As a YR taxpayer, I have zero problem with it - we want the subway, we should pay for it - I just also resent being treated as a second-class rider for daring to use TTC every now and then.

This is a mischaracterization of the concerns over subway extensions into York Region.

Put bluntly, people just want to know that York Region is paying it’s fair share for TTC service operating deep into its territory. This is especially the case because the TTC (and the people of Toronto, who fully funded its operating expenses till recently) weren’t particularly interested in expanding into York Region - this was a decision handed down by the Provincial government.

Given that the people paying for operating the service didn’t want the expanded mandate, and were simply forced to do it - yeah, I can understand why questions around operating costs and fair share come up.

With all due respect, it's not a mischaracterization. Whether it's here or social media or in real life, irrespective of subway extensions, I've heard many prominent Toronto "urbanists" talk about people from Thornhill and Richmond Hill as "regional riders" who should be taking GO instead of taking up seats on the TTC. Examples abound (for the sake of "bringing receipts" I'll name Jen Keesmaat and Adam Giambrone, for starters) but suffice it to say I am quite confident this attitude exists and has existed for a while. The operating costs issue with expansion no doubt takes it to another level but it would exist either way in regards to 905ers using the TTC, regardless of the fact that these people are going to jobs in Toronto and spending money at restaurants and other businesses in Toronto etc.

(And I'm not sure about your "until recently" because pre-Mike Harris, Ontario substantially subsidized TTC operations. Anyway, as I said, I think this should be regionally funded (again), but that doesn't change the fact I've heard 416 people straight-up tell 905 people that GO is their system and TTC isn't.)

With all due respect, it's not a mischaracterization. Whether it's here or social media or in real life, irrespective of subway extensions, I've heard many prominent Toronto "urbanists" talk about people from Thornhill and Richmond Hill as "regional riders" who should be taking GO instead of taking up seats on the TTC. Examples abound (for the sake of "bringing receipts" I'll name Jen Keesmaat and Adam Giambrone, for starters) but suffice it to say I am quite confident this attitude exists and has existed for a while. The operating costs issue with expansion no doubt takes it to another level but it would exist either way in regards to 905ers using the TTC, regardless of the fact that these people are going to jobs in Toronto and spending money at restaurants and other businesses in Toronto etc.

(And I'm not sure about your "until recently" because pre-Mike Harris, Ontario substantially subsidized TTC operations. Anyway, as I said, I think this should be regionally funded (again), but that doesn't change the fact I've heard 416 people straight-up tell 905 people that GO is their system and TTC isn't.)
TJ is right that many, many Torontonians have this attitude. But it comes from years of feeling like the provincial governments are using transit to buy votes in the GTA, and especially in York.


On a positive note, GO is a much nicer system anyway.
 
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turini2

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,Metrolinx has refined plans for the subway extension that will result in deeper tunnels and a route that travels under far fewer residential properties in the Royal Orchard community than the previous route. The changes mean the subway tunnels will follow a route that travels mostly under Bay Thorn Drive wherever possible once they turn east from Yonge Street to connect with the rail corridor. The previous route went under 40 homes and an additional 23 properties, whereas the new route goes under 20 homes and 15 additional properties.

The tunnels below the Royal Orchard neighbourhood will be at a minimum depth of 21 metres and as deep as 50 metres below the surface, averaging a more significant depth through much of the community compared to previous plans. These refinements will keep things peaceful and quiet in the neighbourhoods along the route while still delivering all the benefits of the subway extension for York Region.
 

TJ O'Pootertoot

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Well, this should finally put to rest all those concerns from the local ratepayers, right? I mean, Metrolinx wasn't listening - but they did listen. It was a done deal - but then it wasn't.
It was going under a lot of their homes, too close to the surface - now it's half the homes and deeper. I expect them to be thrilled!

Also, this seems to be oddly under the radar but it seems like it's kind of a big thing?
 

Haydenpoon

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Well, this should finally put to rest all those concerns from the local ratepayers, right? I mean, Metrolinx wasn't listening - but they did listen. It was a done deal - but then it wasn't.
It was going under a lot of their homes, too close to the surface - now it's half the homes and deeper. I expect them to be thrilled!

Also, this seems to be oddly under the radar but it seems like it's kind of a big thing?
Also, there is the Engage Bridge - A new Transit-Oriented Community
 

syn

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This is a mischaracterization of the concerns over subway extensions into York Region.

Put bluntly, people just want to know that York Region is paying it’s fair share for TTC service operating deep into its territory. This is especially the case because the TTC (and the people of Toronto, who fully funded its operating expenses till recently) weren’t particularly interested in expanding into York Region - this was a decision handed down by the Provincial government.

Given that the people paying for operating the service didn’t want the expanded mandate, and were simply forced to do it - yeah, I can understand why questions around operating costs and fair share come up.
I'd agree with this. It's been understood for a very long time now that a lot of riders are coming from other parts of the GTA, and I don't think most people have any sort of problem with it.

With the route change, the government has demonstrated it values the concerns and complaints of some more than others. So much for cost savings.
 

Allandale25

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A comparison. Safe to assume slower speeds in the December version now that the curves are sharper?

Refined Option 3 Comparison - March to December 2021.png
 

ARG1

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If York region coughs up the money for Royal Orchard Station, the speed difference between the two versions would be minimal. Otherwise, maybe 30s added.
But at this point, Royal Orchard is now going to be so much more expensive - at a depth of 50m making it BY FAR the deepest on the network. If York Region couldn't cough up money for it before, they certainly can't do it now.
 

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