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TTC: Yonge North Subway Extension (Finch-Richmond Hill) (Funded/Planned)

minilude

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IMO Bridge station shouldn't be built as top priority because there isn't any intensification there yet. Not even a single building. All condos are at the north side of High tech. They should rough it in and build it when the redevelopment of langstaff land actually starts.

A station at Richmond hill centre (the bus terminal) is OK but I wish there will be some kinds of walkway extension to the condo cluster because the current Richmond hill centre is super super pedestrian unfriendly for any nearby resident who wants to walk to the bus terminal. We need to walk a super detour (cutting through home depot parking lot is not an option) and climb the stupid pedestrian bridge. So everyone drives even though it looks only walking distance on the map.
 

north-of-anything

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Ignoring how close Cummer Station is to Finch Station,.... with the Yonge Subway Extension - focus on Steeles Station since that’ll be the area mega subway station with that 36 bay bus terminal and possible future BRT along Steeles. Now, from Steeles Station - Cummer Station is 1.2km away,... whereas Clark Station is closer at 1.0m away - from that perspective it would favour Cummer Station over Clark Station.
Look at the other direction. Cummer is less than 1 km from Finch Station, while Clark is 3.45 km from Bridge as the crow flies. That's a much larger difference in distances than the 0.2 km that separates Cummer-Steeles and Clark-Steeles. The vast majority of people in the Clark Station area will not be transferring at Steeles to another bus, they'll be going up to Highway 7 or farther south than Steeles.

Just because a subway station will have 36 bus bays doesn't mean it's the next Yonge and Eglinton. It's completely absurd to suggest cutting the only station between Steeles and Highway 7 over regional politics, especially if the new station can be used to spur more intensification in Vaughan/Markham. Cummer will be intensifying regardless based on its proximity to Finch. (Why are we even comparing the two anyways, when they have similar development potential and would both reduce the need for west-east local buses to serve the Steeles hub?)

I personally think that we should have the single Bridge station as a node, and only have provisions for a future station at High Tech or Bantry. A major issue with the TYSSE was that almost every station was meant to be a transit hub in some way. Plus, if the Highway 7 BRT is ever converted to LRT, even in the distant future, a direct transfer to Line 1 would be immensely appreciated compared to the current setup. Until we start seeing actual development plans for Yonge north of High Tech, I'm not sure a station there is a priority.
 

EnviroTO

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Wow. A station at Langstaff GO, and another at Hi-Tech Road. When I mentioned that the Bloor Line should be extended to the Kipling Miway bus terminal I was joking making light of a poor site layout. I didn't realize that someone would actually think extending the line such a short distance to connect to a bus terminal would make sense. At Kipling they should move the subway station west, or should have built the bus terminal more east. At Langstaff the bus terminal should have been further south or the rail/subway station further north. Interestingly in both of these poorly planned sites there is a hydro corridor right through it drastically limiting the area's development potential.
 

sunnyraytoronto

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Look at the other direction. Cummer is less than 1 km from Finch Station, while Clark is 3.45 km from Bridge as the crow flies. That's a much larger difference in distances than the 0.2 km that separates Cummer-Steeles and Clark-Steeles. The vast majority of people in the Clark Station area will not be transferring at Steeles to another bus, they'll be going up to Highway 7 or farther south than Steeles.

Just because a subway station will have 36 bus bays doesn't mean it's the next Yonge and Eglinton. It's completely absurd to suggest cutting the only station between Steeles and Highway 7 over regional politics, especially if the new station can be used to spur more intensification in Vaughan/Markham. Cummer will be intensifying regardless based on its proximity to Finch. (Why are we even comparing the two anyways, when they have similar development potential and would both reduce the need for west-east local buses to serve the Steeles hub?)

Clark Ave is 1km from Steeles Ave, Clark Ave runs from Dufferin to almost Bayview (doesn't connect). Folks living near Clark Ave away from Yonge are more likely to be using buses going to Steeles bus hub! Thus, Clark Station is mainly a "neighbourhood" type Station.

Since likely to lose Royal Orchard Station, and there will only be one station between Bridge Station (Hwy 407/7 and Steeles) better to place that station closer to middle like near Centre St and John St since:
- Centre St westward connects to Hwy 7 near Dufferin (red line west of Yonge in image)
- John St eastward, east of Woodbine becomes Esna Park Drive and Alden Rd, east of Warden become 14th Ave which extends to Pickering! (red line east of Yonge in image)
This creates a more "Regional" Thornhill Station with stronger east-west bus routes servicing a much larger catchment in Thornhill - into Vaughan and Markham

YongeSubway_Thornhill_bus.png
 
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TJ O'Pootertoot

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First, just to correct something a couple of people said on the previous page, Royal Orchard is NOT in the Thornhill Heritage area. That was Centre Street, which is between Royal Orchard and Clark.


IMO Bridge station shouldn't be built as top priority because there isn't any intensification there yet. Not even a single building. All condos are at the north side of High tech. They should rough it in and build it when the redevelopment of langstaff land actually starts.

You're confusing cause and effect, I think. Langstaff is on the brink of starting and that's largely because it was assembled from a bunch of small industrial parcels and is now a blank slate.
The High Tech side is all owned by Metrus and leased to folks like Cineplex and Home Depot. As soon as it is profitable to do so, they will break those leases but they'll milk the retail that's there until it doesn't make sense. They weren't going to knock down Silver City for 75 storey towers while all the stuff we are JUST finding out about now was still being hashed out.

Anyway, someone else posted this map before but:
1616159668902.png


There actually are a couple of major development proposals, on the west side of Yonge. There are none on the east side yet for the reasons I just outlined. Similarly, there are major developments further north on Yonge. The reason there hasn't been a single proposal in the most profitable location (AT HIGH TECH), while there have been proposals popping up pretty much everywhere EXCEPT the best place to build, is because of how premature it's been. But once that snowball starts rolling downhill, it'll be an avalanche map.

And also, look how much of RH Centre is north of High Tech Road - more than you would have thought, I bet. Bridge station simply wouldn't be able to enable that northern development.

And really, it hasn't moved that much north/south. Don't forget, there as already a station at Langstaff. it's just that shifted alignment brings it much further east and that also necessitated bringing it a bit north. But the fundamental logic of having a south station for Markham and a north station for RH doesn't really change. Plus, the train has to go north up to the rail yard anyway, so you're gaining more than you're losing by throwing in one more above-ground stop along the way.

And per the rest of your comment, I think the whole area will be a lot more walkable (including between the east/west halves divided by the CN corridor) once it starts getting built out. Right now it's just too much of an in-between place.
 

TJ O'Pootertoot

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Made a video with my thoughts about the news:
More Subways, More Problems...? | The Yonge North Extension

This is really well done! Kudos.
My only minor comment would be on the tunnelling. I think it's clear they didn't make that huge right turn with the goal of getting to the CN corridor simply to get above ground and thereby save money on tunnelling which, as you point out, doesn't really work out since it's just a longer tunnel to get there.

I think it was a necessity, dictated by the apparently unforeseen challenges tunnelling under the cemetery. The good news is that while you don't save a lot on tunnelling, you do get some other creative opportunities by coming up a corridor that is directly in the middle of the growth centre. Plus you end up with two above-ground stations. So, you win some you lose some there :)
 

innsertnamehere

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going to the rail line does save about a billion according to the Business case. So yea - it does make the corridor marginally longer but not by a huge amount.

I wonder if we will see a push from RH to extend the line to 16th Avenue in a decade given that it would be fairly affordable above grade and is already half-way there with the yard located north of High-Tech..
 

TJ O'Pootertoot

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going to the rail line does save about a billion according to the Business case. So yea - it does make the corridor marginally longer but not by a huge amount.

I wonder if we will see a push from RH to extend the line to 16th Avenue in a decade given that it would be fairly affordable above grade and is already half-way there with the yard located north of High-Tech..

It looks like the line is already designed so it CAN go north to 16th. But it would be pretty gutsy for RH to ask for more when the entire IBC is premised on cutting stations to fit within a funding envelope. I mean, if they can get that money to fall from the sky, I guess it doesn't hurt to ask but if they get a third station and Toronto doesn't even get Cummer, that'll be a tough sell. Ironically, there's probably so much development up there now you could justify a 16th Avenue station more than Royal Orchard (maybe more than Cummer or Clark?) but still....

I don't know about the theory in the previous pages that this is all positioning for more funding to fill in the blanks. The feds have already come to the table for Toronto's subway plans and there's only so much money and this project has already seen costs rise a lot since it was additionally proposed. I think the only way you see more than 1 station added is is the Province can show they have private development money pay for the station(s). It's not outside the realm of possibility but I wouldn't bet on it (though there are still 3 corners where maybe they can do that at both Cummer and 16th).
 
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allengeorge

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I don't know about the theory in the previous pages that this is all positioning for more funding to fill in the blanks.
Yeah. I’m betting we get Clark, since the IBC says we’ll get one additional station. York Region can claim victory, the province can claim victory, and both Toronto and York Region both lose a station.
 

sunnyraytoronto

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