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TTC: Yonge North Subway Extension (Finch-Richmond Hill) (Funded/Planned)

Undead

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It's a shame we never bundle suburban subways with intensification. I'm sure the BCRs would improve substantially if everything within walking distance of the stations was upzoned thoughtfully.

IIRC, one or two towers were proposed for the golf course to the south west of that intersection.

Looking at the map again, it actually looks like Royal Orchard has at least as much redevelopment potential as Clark, maybe even more: 6-8 towers for Clark, 8-12 for RO.
Able to post the Google Maps link for where the station would be located?
 
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TJ O'Pootertoot

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Able to post the Google Maps link for where the station would be located?

Here's a link. It helps to see the topography if you don't know the area, as there's a big valley to the south.
1616090579501.png
 

TJ O'Pootertoot

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Its 400 metres! That's like bus/LRT stop spacing. For reference, North York Centre to Sheppard is nearly double the length (800m) than High Tech to Bridge.

Yeah... Ain't nothing perfect.
Finch to Cummer would only be about 500m. I'm sure they've tried to push High Tech north and Bridge south but there's only so many possibilities.
It seems pointlessly close but I think if you understand the transit infrastructure and the master plans for north and south of Highway 7 you can appreciate what they've tried to do within the constraints.
 

TJ O'Pootertoot

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If there's one benefit to this subway extension, it's that it puts developer pressure to make those golf courses disappear

The Ladies Golf Club has already sold off land for development over by Bayview Avenue. A Don River tributary runs through the bottom of that valley so I'm not sure how much of that land is even developable (both due to floodplain issues and simple topography). The country club sits atop the valley so I'm sure the part with their buildings could be redeveloped but once you drop off to the golf course, I think it's less clear.
 

W. K. Lis

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Update from the Councillor. IMHO, Metrolinx should either move the High Tech station further north; or cut it and use the money to build one of the Royal Orchard or Clark. Cummer should not be cut in any scenario.
View attachment 306461
In computerize, "or" means either one or the other or both (all), the "exclusive or" means either one or the other but NOT both.

 
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TJ O'Pootertoot

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In computerize, "or" means either one or the other or both (all), the "exclusive or" means either one or the other but NOT both.

The IBC makes the case (I don't have it in front of me) that when you draw the radius around Steeles and around Finch, there aren't very many people around Cummer who won't be able to walk to one of the other stations. In a perfect world, i'd like to see it there but if we're cutting stations, Cummer and Royal Orchard (which, let's not forget, was already cut and then semi-revived) are the obvious targets, IMHO.

High Tech will likely shift as far north as it can... but I'm not sure how far that is because of the trail tracks and storage yard.
 

aquateam

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It's a shame we never bundle suburban subways with intensification. I'm sure the BCRs would improve substantially if everything within walking distance of the stations was upzoned thoughtfully.

IIRC, one or two towers were proposed for the golf course to the south west of that intersection.

Looking at the map again, it actually looks like Royal Orchard has at least as much redevelopment potential as Clark, maybe even more: 6-8 towers for Clark, 8-12 for RO.


Isn't intensification already planned for all these sites? Cummer/Drewry is part of "North York Centre", and I read that the plan was being extended north to Steeles.

1616093639221.png


I remember being shown the Langstaff Gateway Secondary Plan and being impressed by the amount of density planned.
1616092938723.png

The new subway alignment does a good job of placing "Bridge station" closer to the centroid of this plan.
1616093237321.png


Same thing with the Richmond Hill Secondary Plan, although it doesn't seem to be as well-developed yet.

1616093509733.png


So the only two stations where I'm not aware of any intensification planned (yet) are Clark and Royal Orchard. Clark is in a great redevelopment spot, though.

In general, the province should mandate the removal of parking minimums/height limits within 500 meters of any rapid transit station. That alone would probably do more to improve ridership than the construction of tens of billions of dollars of new lines.
 

TJ O'Pootertoot

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Thanks for posting all those in one place.
The north side of Yonge/Cummer is in North York Centre, yes, and the south side is subject to the Yonge North Secondary Plan, which isn't finished yet.
Clark and Royal Orchard are a bit in-between when it comes to the intensification plans in Markham and Vaughan (though both already have apartment buildings).

Any way you slice it, I don't think encouraging intensification will be the challenge here. If anything, based on what we're seeing at Steeles and Royal Orchard, it'll be reining in developers who are already asking for 60 storeys. That's what happens when you announce a subway and then wait 10 years before you start thinking about actually building it...
 

Northern Light

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@aquateam I was referring to Clark and Royal Orchard which have much less redevelopment potential even given official intensification plans. There's only so much you can do when everything starting 50 metres away from Yonge is SFH.

Worth noting the province has moved to mandate higher densities around transit infrastructure.

Assuming an MTSA designation (Major Transit Station Area), it should pull densities up significantly as much as 500M away.
 

Allandale25

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Benefit-cost ratio (BCR) - weighing up the cost of doing something with the cost of doing it. Anything better than 1 is a pass - the Ontario line was around 1.1, increasing to around 1.3 when Transit Orientated Development was taken into account.

Note that none of the options get at least 1 - Option 1 (0.79), Option 2 (0.84) and Option 3 (0.82).

Thanks. I'm now wondering what the difference is between the pre-BCR number and what we now see the options. Is this change shown in the IBC report/supplementary report?
 

aquateam

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I wonder how much teeth that legislation actually has in case cities fail to zone adequately, and also whether cities are hoping to delaying compliance while waiting for a change of government to avoid meeting those targets.

That's a good point. The Places To Grow act gave density targets as more of a gentle suggestion without any real enforcement. And the targets were laughably low to begin with. It was a "we pinkie swear not to sprawl at a rate any worse than the rate we've already been sprawling in the sprawliest decade in our history" promise with municipalities.

There's been a lot of huffing and puffing about Ford upzoning around Eglinton LRT stations and in downtown, so I would expect that there's some teeth to them. He also brought back the OMB, which was the only reason anything could get built in this province. So it's a fair bet that the legislation actually accomplishes something.
 

MrGoose

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Seems to me that the government is angling to push forward Alignment 2, preferably with federal and York Region money to build extra stations.

They have the already designed case, their preferred case, and the weird value engineered case.
 

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