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TTC: Yonge North Subway Extension (Finch-Richmond Hill) (Funded/Planned)

salsa

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turini2

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On the last pages of the Business case - Appendix 1 Preliminary Stations Analysis
  • Clark Station performs the best relative to Cummer and Royal Orchard station, where the expected Pre-BCRs indicate benefits exceeds the costs regardless of tunneling methods.
  • Cummer Station performs well also, where the expected Pre-BCRs indicate benefits exceed the costs regardless of tunneling technology.
  • Royal Orchard Station does not perform as well as the other stations, and in all circumstances, the costs far outweigh the benefits to the station.
 

TJ O'Pootertoot

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I'm sure everyone who followed the Vaughan extension remembers that you don't have to lock the names of the stations until like 6 months before opening (slight hyperbole).

I really don't know why you wouldn't call Bridge, Langstaff (or High Tech, Richmond Hill Centre) but no one asked me. Still plenty of time to pick something sassy and my money is on both changing sooner rather than later.

And per above, that Clark has the best objective numbers doesn't surprise me. Whether that means it gets added in, who knows?
 

sunnyraytoronto

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Full business case is here rather than just the summary. The Option 1 and 2 maps are below, too.

And a zoomed in thing showing the three variations in Richmond Hill.

(Bridge and High Tech are very, very silly station names, wow)

Years ago, they mentioned new Subway Car Yard (like Wilson Yard, Davisville Yard) for the land northwest of Yonge and Steeles where the Auto Mall is across from World On Yonge - can't seem to find any mention of that new Subway Car Yard now,.... so I guess it's been cut as well.
 

turini2

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What does "Pre-BCRs" mean?
Benefit-cost ratio (BCR) - weighing up the cost of doing something with the cost of doing it. Anything better than 1 is a pass - the Ontario line was around 1.1, increasing to around 1.3 when Transit Orientated Development was taken into account.

Note that none of the options get at least 1 - Option 1 (0.79), Option 2 (0.84) and Option 3 (0.82).
 

turini2

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can't seem to find any mention of that new Subway Car Yard now,.... so I guess it's been cut as well.
Subway Yard wasn't cut - the new Subway Yard would be at the very end of the line - as proposed in the mid 2010s as part of the original design of this project.

Metrolinx Business Case states:
Each of the options includes an at grade Train Storage and Maintenance Facility just north of High Tech Road within the CN/GO Rail Corridor and on adjacent municipally owned lands. This facility would provide storage for an estimated 12 transits and include provision for cleaning and light maintenance.
 

Coolstar

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ARG1

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Overall, here are my general thoughts as someone who lives near the area and would hugely benefit from this project.

A lot of the stations being cut is kind of sad, but I want to consider the fact that we just came out of a similar situation in Hamilton, why do I get the feeling that this is one of those "Let's give an underwhelming base design so that hopefully we can get the feds to pitch in and offer additional funding"? If this is the case, and the feds do fall in line since this area is a very swing neighbourhood so they would have a lot to benefit from pitching in those extra funds. If we don't get the option for additional funds, the next question would obviously be which station to include? Royal Orchard I see very little immediate value in, as its small through suburban street with not much on it... which is what I would normally say if the nearest station wasn't over a kilometre in all directions (but then the nearest station wouldn't exist if it existed so whoops). Clark and Cummer on the other hand have amazing cases for both of them. Cummer has the Cummer bus which iirc is quite frequent it would do quite well to feed people into the station, and while Clark doesn't have the same bus frequencies, its still a street that would do well to serve the Thornhill area, and if we chose Cummer as our minor station of choice, it would leave the entire Thornhill section of Yonge completely underserved and would minimize the benefit of being able to reduce busses on the corridor, and we might still see Viva Blue running south of RHC rather than just terminating like the original plan was. Bridge Center is one of those stations that at first I was incredibly confused by. Why build another station and a brand new bus terminal when you have a perfectly good bus terminal just north at RHC? If you want to add better connectivity to the GO train then shift the platform north a bit. The Richmond Hill Line platforms are really cheap so moving it shouldn't be a big deal. However if the circumstance is that entire gateway development, and if the new bus terminal would provide a better connection the 407 transitway and the Viva busses (at least Orange and Purple), then maybe that makes sense. Overall, I don't think this modification is the end of the world. Even though its gimped I'm still extremely excited for this project.

The zoning on the S/W corner of Yonge/Steeles is already high density, the land would not come cheap.
Kinda goes to show that this project should've been done years ago, before development starting inching north, and why building transit ahead of projected development is so important.
I'm sure everyone who followed the Vaughan extension remembers that you don't have to lock the names of the stations until like 6 months before opening (slight hyperbole).

I really don't know why you wouldn't call Bridge, Langstaff (or High Tech, Richmond Hill Centre) but no one asked me. Still plenty of time to pick something sassy and my money is on both changing sooner rather than later.

And per above, that Clark has the best objective numbers doesn't surprise me. Whether that means it gets added in, who knows?
The thing with RHC is that the plan for the Bridge Stations is to build a new Bus Terminal:
1616083969850.png

This new station will be used for Viva busses, GO busses, and busses coming from the 407 Transitway in the future. This makes the current RHC terminal redundant and will most likely be demolished, leaving High Tech Station as just a station that serves the commercial and residential areas near that area, as sort of a cheap bonus given that the station is at grade. I wonder if this also precludes an option to have the Yonge Line continue north sometime in the future to act as Richmond Hill Line RER in the future. There are 2 reasons why ML is hesitant on RER for Richmond Hill: 1 is dealing with CN in getting track rights, and 2 is that the corridor in Don Valley is not suited for RER services. The location of the track at the bottom of the valley means stations connecting to other RT lines such as Ontario or Bloor would be extremely expensive and at the end of the day unusable, and the fact that its in a flood plain means building any form of long form infrastructure is risky. I wonder if Yonge North could be a compromise where north of RHC it acts like GO RER, meanwhile the Richmond Hill Line is the rush hour express service to downtown Toronto so that the Yonge Line doesn't suffer from severe overcrowding like we're dealing with right now. As a final note, as I said earlier I'm fine with the renames. Tbh I never liked the name RHC. At least to me, the real RHC is Downtown Richmond Hill between Major Mack and Levendale. I'm glad they're giving these stations a different name, and considering how unique the names are relative to the rest of the system, I'm okay with that.
Can't wait for "High Tech Station" to be two bus shelters on an outdoor concrete platform 😅
I kind of doubt it. This is York Region we're talking about, so I'm pretty sure the reason why this extension is so expensive is because York Region wants every station to be like TYSSE, flashy and overbuilt.
 

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