TTC: Yonge North Subway Extension (Finch-Richmond Hill) (Funded/Planned)

[wopchop]

SmartTrack is just the GO RER plan, as City staff has confirmed. There's a good chance it will require zero funds from the city. Hopefully that means that we can refocus our funding efforts on LONG.

It will cost money for the new stations. This was clearly unfunded in the provincial budget.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Those stations won't cost very much.

From what Metrolinx has been saying, it's looking like a lot of those stations won't be happening anyways. They've really been emphasizing how similar RER and ST are, to the point of saying that SmartTrack is unlikely to perform significantly different than GO RER in their studies. Munro's analysis also throws cold water on the idea of new stations because of scheduling conflicts with GO express trains. We'd be lucky to get a few stations out of this when it's all done.

We should wait until the ST studies are complete before making a judgement. But Metrolinx's comments sound really, really bad for ST proponents.

 

[ehlow]

Those stations won't cost very much.

From what Metrolinx has been saying, it's looking like a lot of those stations won't be happening anyways. They've really been emphasizing how similar RER and ST are, to the point of saying that SmartTrack is unlikely to perform significantly different than GO RER in their studies. Munro's analysis also throws cold water on the idea of new stations because of scheduling conflicts with GO express trains. We'd be lucky to get a few stations out of this when it's all done.

We should wait until the ST studies are complete before making a judgement. But Metrolinx's comments sound really, really bad for ST proponents.

How is it "bad for ST proponents" that ST is 90-95% the same as RER (which everyone has known all along)? Whatever it's called we're getting double tracking, electrification, increased service on the GO lines, which is a good thing in my book.

If all that's done is what RER would have done anyways.. that's great!

 

[TheTigerMaster]

How is it "bad for ST proponents" that ST is 90-95% the same as RER (which everyone has known all along)? Whatever it's called we're getting double tracking, electrification, increased service on the GO lines, which is a good thing in my book.

If all that's done is what RER would have done anyways.. that's great!

Assuming that what Munro said is correct, it's not getting anywhere near 95% of the way to what was presented in the campaign . What we'll be dealing with is longer head ways and far fewer stations than what was proposed. And this definitely doesn't bode well for the SmartTrack proponents who inisisted that ST could solve all of our Yonge relief issues. ST clearly isn't the magic bullet to "city-wide transit relief" that many had hoped.

For people who supported RER, this is still fantastic news regardless.

 

[salsa]

Assuming that what Munro said is correct, it's not getting anywhere near 95% of the way to what was presented in the campaign . What we'll be dealing with is longer head ways and far fewer stations than what was proposed. And this definitely doesn't bode well for the SmartTrack proponents who inisisted that ST could solve all of our Yonge relief issues. ST clearly isn't the magic bullet to "city-wide transit relief" that many had hoped.

For people who supported RER, this is still fantastic news regardless.

Thing is, Tory got elected on SmartTrack (at least that's what he claims), so it’s going to be very hard to put a stop to this nonsense now and refocus on the DRL.

 

[innsertnamehere]

the good news is that smart track is likely going to be rather cheap. $8 billion to add a few stations is rather unlikely.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Likely that Toronto won't have to make any contributions. Very good news.

In that situation, I wonder what happens to the $2.6 Billion in federal money (assume we get it).

 

[wopchop]

Those stations won't cost very much.

From what Metrolinx has been saying, it's looking like a lot of those stations won't be happening anyways. They've really been emphasizing how similar RER and ST are, to the point of saying that SmartTrack is unlikely to perform significantly different than GO RER in their studies. Munro's analysis also throws cold water on the idea of new stations because of scheduling conflicts with GO express trains. We'd be lucky to get a few stations out of this when it's all done.

We should wait until the ST studies are complete before making a judgement. But Metrolinx's comments sound really, really bad for ST proponents.

Honestly, this is kind of the worst situation. I think SmartTrack is a bit of a joke, considering the GO RER plans (which I support), but the infill stations are needed. It was obvious that Metrolinx had no interest in well serving the outer suburbs of Toronto, and now it is even more obvious that they aren't interested.

I get that it's technically difficult, but it really would be a major loss for Toronto IMO.

Getting back to Yonge North, it seems obvious to me from this report that the Province/Metrolinx is going to use GO RER and the TTC's ATC installation as an excuse to delay the DRL yet again. SmartTrack is not the magic bullet solution, as we all expected it would not be (Personally, I never understood how it was supposed to relieve the Yonge Line).

 

[Adjei]

So according to the TTC it will cost $4.6 billion to build this line? How did the price shoot up like that?

http://stevemunro.ca/2015/06/28/ttc-2016-budget-intro-part-2-capital-budget/

 

[rbt]

How did the price shoot up like that?

Time. Wait 5 more years and it'll add another billion.

 

[44 North]

I don't think $4.6bn should come as a surprise. What I find extremely surprising is the cost of Yonge-Bloor Capacity Improvements. ONE BILLION DOLLARS?!? As bad as B-Y is, I think spending even one cent on expanding that station is a mistake if that money could otherwise go to a Relief Line.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I'd expect these BY upgrades to be deferred once DRL is approved.

 

[44 North]

I'd expect these BY upgrades to be deferred once DRL is approved.

I wish I could have the same optimistic enthusiasm. But the Prov hasn't committed to the City/TTC RL plans - so we still don't know if the DRL is a sure thing, or what the "DRL" even is. Once an updated YRNS comes back next year, the Prov/Metrolinx could very well present a case for supporting their "Option 3" (LRT) + Yonge-Bloor modification. So $3.5bn + $1bn - with a short enough construction window, low enough costs, and just enough 'relief' that they can get this $4.6bn York Region Subway started. In the end, it's possible that we'll be shelling out almost $10bn ($20bn if incl SSE and ST), and still not have a proper Relief Line.

 

[salsa]

Time. Wait 5 more years and it'll add another billion.

That's what will especially happen with the DRL as politicians continue to ignore it while downtown continues to densify.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

There are only two subway rapid transit proposals that make sense in this city. Both move 20k+ people at peak. Both remain unfunded. What a disappointment.