Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[ARG1]

The Network 2011 plan from 1985 had the Sheppard subway as the first priority and being built by 1993, which is consistent with syn's first point above. We only got half of it nine years later thanks to the usual dithering and Mike Harris. Metro's plan was to build out satellite downtowns at STC, NYCC and in Etobicoke, but the realities of the 1990s (remember Bob Rae and the "Commercial Concentration Tax"?) ended up pushing suburban office development out of Toronto up the 404 and west to Mississauga.

Actually the part of it being halfed by Mike Harris isn't actually true. It was halfed by the NDP and Bob Rae when the recession hit after he entered the office. His version of Network 2011 cut most of the plan with the only thing remaining was Sheppard from S-Y to Don Mills and Eglinton West from EW to York Centre. Mike Harris did eventually cancel Eglinton West, but Mel Lastman saved the already stubbed Sheppard Line from being cancelled.

 

[christiesplits]

Is it correct that then-Councillor Jack Layton was a huge champion for the Sheppard subway?

The urban planning zeitgeist of the 90s seemed to be "build subways and they will come."

 

[Bureaucromancer]

Is it correct that then-Councillor Jack Layton was a huge champion for the Sheppard subway?

Less that he was a proponent of Sheppard than opposed to the DRL.

Honestly, I wouldn't put the blame on planning so much as politicians. Staff were advocating for the DRL in the 80s, while council had latched on to the idea that downtown was being somehow over-developed and we should focus on the suburban centres. From what I've seen of it, the positioning was something to the effect that "GO expansion is bad enough, we don't want more people dumped downtown, that will just mean more skyscrapers (a bad thing for some reason)".

 

[AlbertHWagstaff]

Is it correct that then-Councillor Jack Layton was a huge champion for the Sheppard subway?

The urban planning zeitgeist of the 90s seemed to be "build subways and they will come."

Jack Layton was a big proponent of building the satellite downtowns and spreading out the density away from downtown Toronto. He opposed the Relief Line on the basis that it would encourage further density downtown.

 

[syn]

Jack Layton was a big proponent of building the satellite downtowns and spreading out the density away from downtown Toronto. He opposed the Relief Line on the basis that it would encourage further density downtown.

Generally speaking I like that idea. That's one area I think that really worked with the Metro form of government. Municipalities could compete to attract business, which would only be good for the city overall.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The Network 2011 plan from 1985 had the Sheppard subway as the first priority and being built by 1993, which is consistent with syn's first point above. We only got half of it nine years later thanks to the usual dithering and Mike Harris. Metro's plan was to build out satellite downtowns at STC, NYCC and in Etobicoke, but the realities of the 1990s (remember Bob Rae and the "Commercial Concentration Tax"?) ended up pushing suburban office development out of Toronto up the 404 and west to Mississauga.

What was the Commercial Concentration Tax all about? To disincentivize further office development of Downtown Toronto?

 

[Towered]

Jack Layton was a big proponent of building the satellite downtowns and spreading out the density away from downtown Toronto. He opposed the Relief Line on the basis that it would encourage further density downtown.

It's so strange to think about a left-wing NDP politician opposing transit expansion in the densest part of the city. That's a stance you'd expect from car-loving conservatives.

 

[innsertnamehere]

It's so strange to think about a left-wing NDP politician opposing transit expansion in the densest part of the city. That's a stance you'd expect from car-loving conservatives.

The old NDP of the inner city in the 1980's and 1990's was very, very anti development. You get mayors like David Crombie trying to implement a flat 40 foot height limit across the entire old city, and a push to shift growth to the suburban centres (North York City Centre, Scarborough City Centre, etc.) as a way to accommodate growth without impacting the downtown.

There is a reason the GTA was a sprawl machine in the 1990's, and a lot of that has to do with Toronto severely restricting development.

 

[Amare]

The old NDP of the inner city in the 1980's and 1990's was very, very anti development. You get mayors like David Crombie trying to implement a flat 40 foot height limit across the entire old city, and a push to shift growth to the suburban centres (North York City Centre, Scarborough City Centre, etc.) as a way to accommodate growth without impacting the downtown.

There is a reason the GTA was a sprawl machine in the 1990's, and a lot of that has to do with Toronto severely restricting development.

I'm a sucker for this kind of information, i'm always curious to know how development trends were like in the late 80's/90's in Toronto. I wasn't aware of all that.

 

[asher__jo]

The old NDP of the inner city in the 1980's and 1990's was very, very anti development. You get mayors like David Crombie trying to implement a flat 40 foot height limit across the entire old city, and a push to shift growth to the suburban centres (North York City Centre, Scarborough City Centre, etc.) as a way to accommodate growth without impacting the downtown.

There is a reason the GTA was a sprawl machine in the 1990's, and a lot of that has to do with Toronto severely restricting development.

I think that they were all about managing development. There is definitely a thing as too much density in one area being a bad thing as it puts strain on services (utilities, public transit, daycare, etc). A good example of density getting out of control is Yonge and Eglinton. Of course if the city upzoned Sheppard that wouldn't hurt.

 

[nfitz]

The best example of a recently densified suburban downtown is Bellevue - across the lake from Seattle.

What's driven that? My geography east of Lake Washington is weak. Microsoft?

It's not transit-driven, which seems to play catch-up there (and almost everywhere).

If there are huge employment centres then by all means connect them.

 

[officedweller]

What's driven that? My geography east of Lake Washington is weak. Microsoft?

It's not transit-driven, which seems to play catch-up there (and almost everywhere).

If there are huge employment centres then by all means connect them.

Yup, Amazon, Microsoft and other tech offices in towers, as well as residential.
Will more office towers currently planned.
Seattle's LRT will only skirt downtown Bellevue (you can see the guideway crossing the I-405 below, with the closest station where it enters the hillside there).

Bellevue, Washington - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Towered]

Yup, Amazon, Microsoft and other tech offices in towers, as well as residential.
Will more office towers currently planned.
Seattle's LRT will only skirt downtown Bellevue (you can see the guideway crossing the I-405 below, with the closest station where it enters the hillside there).

Bellevue, Washington - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Fascinating - never heard of this place before. It's like Seattle's Mississauga.

 

[Johnny Au]

Microsoft and Nintendo of America are based in another suburb of Seattle, Redmond.

Redmond, Washington - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[officedweller]

Yeah, the LRT will be extended to the Redmond campus and Microsoft is building a bridge to the campus.
They have another office in downtown Bellevue.

A bridge to Xbox: Microsoft to fund $33M project connecting employees to light rail

Microsoft will pay more than $33 million to fund a project that includes a pedestrian and bicycle bridge across state Route 520. The bridge will connect the west side of Microsoft'

www.geekwire.com

RTC Pedestrian Bridge – Value Engineering – V+M Structural Design, Inc.

vm-structural.com