Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[sixrings]

Unless it's the Ontario Line - then it has to be above ground because tunnels are dark and scary, and people don't like using escalators.

As for Sheppard, Ford has been promising to build it for years, to 'close the loop'. We even have some pictorial evidence...

View attachment 253669

Maybe he thinks if the OL is above ground it can take out some of those pesky bikes. I mean his brother did say " And every year we have dozens of people that get hit by cars or trucks. Well, no wonder: roads are built for buses, cars, and trucks, not for people on bikes..."My heart bleeds for them when I hear someone gets killed, but it's their own fault at the end of the day.". It's all some bizarro plan from the same people who didn't know that the RT was grade separated to take out cyclists.

 

[M II A II R II K]

It would also be the only uptown commuter like service emanating from Durham region, unlike just a downtown option.

 

[sixrings]

It would also be the only uptown commuter like service emanating from Durham region, unlike just a downtown option.

True and I'm sure lots of Torontonians would like to get to pickering town centre.

 

[11th]

The OL or DRL with traditional subway trains is what should be built first. But God wouldn't that be perfect for the entitled rich people who get to shop at Don mills and York mills while people in Scarborough are basically neglected.

I'm not sure what's there to shop at Don Mills and York Mills (perhaps you meant Don Mills/Lawrence), but that's why I am more supportive of OL/DRL using the GO ROW north of Lawrence rather than follow Don Mills.
Don Mills/Sheppard is as arbitrary of a hub as STC. The GO ROW also goes past the Lesmill employment lands.

 

[kali]

I'm not sure what's there to shop at Don Mills and York Mills (perhaps you meant Don Mills/Lawrence), but that's why I am more supportive of OL/DRL using the GO ROW north of Lawrence rather than follow Don Mills.
Don Mills/Sheppard is as arbitrary of a hub as STC. The GO ROW also goes past the Lesmill employment lands.

Well, Fairview Mall is a major destination and there's been an apartment cluster in the area since the 60s (and it has grown during the current boom - Forest Manor). Plus any future redevelopment of the mall.

Which alignment is estimated to provide the most relief for Yonge?

 

[Rainforest]

Which alignment is estimated to provide the most relief for Yonge?

I suspect that any alignment that reaches Sheppard will provide approximately same relief for Yonge.

 

[sixrings]

https://t.co/Ga9o0ph5Yx?amp=1

 

[Steve X]

Well, Fairview Mall is a major destination and there's been an apartment cluster in the area since the 60s (and it has grown during the current boom - Forest Manor). Plus any future redevelopment of the mall.

Which alignment is estimated to provide the most relief for Yonge?

The number of riders would be similar to North York Centre and that's not a hub. Apartment cluster don't really attract that much riders unless they are poor income residents. Fairview Mall like STC could be seen as a convenient location for people to stop by when they have time or any subway disruptions and would be better than a hub at Kennedy or McCowan/Sheppard.

 

[Shining Tree]

https://t.co/Ga9o0ph5Yx?amp=1

From Report

Problem Statement
The existing Line 2 Subway terminates at Kennedy Station. In the peak hour, over 7,000 transit users access the subway at this station, with many customers reaching the station from the Scarborough Rapid Transit (SRT) or after traveling significant distances by bus. Extending the subway further into Scarborough provides access to more of Scarborough by bringing stations closer to users, providing them with shorter journey times and an improved customer experience.

This is not a problem statement - it is a comment on a particular solution.

A real problem statement would be; "Find the most cost effective way to provide rapid transit to connect as many residential, educational and business nodes (such as STC, Malvern) in Scarborough with the remainder of Toronto."

 

[dad pad]

The number of riders would be similar to North York Centre and that's not a hub. Apartment cluster don't really attract that much riders unless they are poor income residents. Fairview Mall like STC could be seen as a convenient location for people to stop by when they have time or any subway disruptions and would be better than a hub at Kennedy or McCowan/Sheppard.

are you sure about this? i would be swayed by data but i would not classify the newer condo developments around fairview as for 'poor income residents'. in my experience it's younger people that live there. one guy i know bought a condo there because it put him near a subway station but also gave him highway access. another friend of mine has a condo there and she has a concierge. additionally the condos often provide shuttles to don mills station that are well used by people who are clearly going downtown for work.

 

[M II A II R II K]

If extended westward would the Line 4 Sheppard middle platform even be accessible to Line 1, or it can only be used for embarking and disembarking the station into the street.

 

[Steve X]

are you sure about this? i would be swayed by data but i would not classify the newer condo developments around fairview as for 'poor income residents'. in my experience it's younger people that live there. one guy i know bought a condo there because it put him near a subway station but also gave him highway access. another friend of mine has a condo there and she has a concierge. additionally the condos often provide shuttles to don mills station that are well used by people who are clearly going downtown for work.

I just find it amusing after how many condos went up around the Sheppard Line, ridership remained flat lined after 18 years of opening. The system ridership has been growing and this line has been trap in year 2002. The problem is these people are likely just taking it once or twice a week.

Unless TTC data is wrong, the line had a ridership of 47-50k for the last decade: https://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Transit_Planning/index.jsp

 

[dad pad]

that's true but 70% of the riders are boarding or alighting at don mills station. it has the same ridership as st. clair according to the latest table from the link you provided

 

[WislaHD]

Walk-in traffic doesn't generate high enough ridership, the residents along the Sheppard corridor have their mode share split with car (Hwy-401 is next door) still, and despite all the condos that have gone up, actual trip generation have remained low since none of these condos have any office or employment component to generate outside trips.

A two-station extension to Victoria Park is interesting because this would intercept the Victoria Park bus, and the Consumers area has many offices and employment that would generate trips from outside the corridor.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Walk-in traffic doesn't generate high enough ridership, the residents along the Sheppard corridor have their mode share split with car (Hwy-401 is next door) still, and despite all the condos that have gone up, actual trip generation have remained low since none of these condos have any office or employment component to generate outside trips.

A two-station extension to Victoria Park is interesting because this would intercept the Victoria Park bus, and the Consumers area has many offices and employment that would generate trips from outside the corridor.

Guess there's not much "walk-in traffic" at Union, King, or St. Andrew Stations, being so "close" to the Gardiner Expressway in comparison.